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	<title>12 Witnesses &#187; Theology</title>
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	<description>Let these stones be a witness to what we have done here this day.</description>
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	<itunes:summary>Let these stones be a witness to what we have done here this day.</itunes:summary>
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		<title>To the pure, all things are pure</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2011/09/20/to-the-pure-all-things-are-pure/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2011/09/20/to-the-pure-all-things-are-pure/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ministry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[<p>Paul writes to Titus these words concerning the distinction between those who are regenerate and those who are not:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>&#8220;To the pure, everything is pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; in fact, both their mind and conscience are defiled.  They profess to know God, but the deny Him by their works.  They are detestable, disobedient and disqualified for any good work.&#8221;   -Titus 1:15-16</strong></p>
<p>Titus was commissioned to correct false teachers and to &#8220;rebuke them sharply.&#8221; (1:13)  Apparently, a part of the false teaching that was in need of correction was the constant need for ritual cleansing from those things considered &#8220;impure.&#8221;  Paul&#8217;s word here says that if the heart is impure, one finds impurity in everything.  The inherit filth of the corrupt heart drives people to perceive filth in all things and attempt to perfect (according to their warped perception) themselves and everything around them in hopes of pleasing God.  Moreover, they hold others to the same twisted ideals and teach them to conform their hearts to what can not please God.</p>
<p>It is so contrary to the Gospel.</p>
<p>The Good News is that if Grace has cleansed our hearts, nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. (Rom. 8:35-39)  Which is not to say that we don&#8217;t struggle with sin or even that we shouldn&#8217;t war against it in our lives, but it is to say that contact with that which would once have made people ceremonially unclean can no longer do so.</p>
<p>Once covered by Grace, it is impossible to offend God by the touching of a dead thing.  Once covered by Grace, it is impossible to offend God by being imperfect by anyone&#8217;s standards, including His.</p>
<p>Sadly, even within the body of Christ, I have often been confronted by the hearts of those who perceive impurity in everything.  Everything that is not perfect in their own perceptions, and nothing ever is, is unclean and ungodly, rejected by the Lord and certain to bring condemnation and ruination. They see the spending of money this way as &#8220;wrong&#8221; or the counting of people in that way as &#8220;wrong.&#8221;  They become bitter and in their bitterness, they become hurtful.</p>
<p>While I wouldn&#8217;t say that such a person is not a Christian (they may or may not be), I would say that their heart has surely not comprehended the fullness of the Gospel of Grace.</p>
<p>Grace covers the imperfections of our lives. Grace not only gets us to eternity, but Grace also gets us through the day.  When we are confronted with either the willful rebellion of our hearts or the inadvertent shortcomings of a fallen mind, Grace covers all.</p>
<p>And when we are covered by Grace, when our hearts are satisfied in the free gift of God&#8217;s unmerited favor, it is not just easy, but it is also natural, to extend grace to others around us.</p>
<p>The heart that wallows in the Grace of God takes no offense in the rebellion or imperfection of those around.  When the service of a waiter is slow and lethargic, Grace manifests itself in a generous tip, rather than the stinginess of heart that counts wrongs against another.  When you are verbally attacked by another parent at the game because their child didn&#8217;t play the position or time they expected, Grace listens patiently and realizes that the person spewing venom is in need of something much deeper than they have.</p>
<p>The extension of Grace to them in that moment will likely be the rare exception in their life and will surely be the clearest picture of the Gospel that they will see that day. Month. Year? Lifetime?</p>
<p>To the pure, all things are pure.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/02/23/the-right-fight/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: The Right Fight">The Right Fight</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/13/broken-pt-2/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Broken&#8230; Pt. 2">Broken&#8230; Pt. 2</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/11/01/water/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Water">Water</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2005/09/29/oral-sex-among-teens/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Oral Sex Among Teens">Oral Sex Among Teens</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/07/26/in-defense-of-ben/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: In Defense of Ben">In Defense of Ben</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>Paul writes to Titus these words concerning the distinction between those who are regenerate and those who are not:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>&#8220;To the pure, everything is pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; in fact, both their mind and conscience are defiled.  They profess to know God, but the deny Him by their works.  They are detestable, disobedient and disqualified for any good work.&#8221;   -Titus 1:15-16</strong></p>
<p>Titus was commissioned to correct false teachers and to &#8220;rebuke them sharply.&#8221; (1:13)  Apparently, a part of the false teaching that was in need of correction was the constant need for ritual cleansing from those things considered &#8220;impure.&#8221;  Paul&#8217;s word here says that if the heart is impure, one finds impurity in everything.  The inherit filth of the corrupt heart drives people to perceive filth in all things and attempt to perfect (according to their warped perception) themselves and everything around them in hopes of pleasing God.  Moreover, they hold others to the same twisted ideals and teach them to conform their hearts to what can not please God.</p>
<p>It is so contrary to the Gospel.</p>
<p>The Good News is that if Grace has cleansed our hearts, nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. (Rom. 8:35-39)  Which is not to say that we don&#8217;t struggle with sin or even that we shouldn&#8217;t war against it in our lives, but it is to say that contact with that which would once have made people ceremonially unclean can no longer do so.</p>
<p>Once covered by Grace, it is impossible to offend God by the touching of a dead thing.  Once covered by Grace, it is impossible to offend God by being imperfect by anyone&#8217;s standards, including His.</p>
<p>Sadly, even within the body of Christ, I have often been confronted by the hearts of those who perceive impurity in everything.  Everything that is not perfect in their own perceptions, and nothing ever is, is unclean and ungodly, rejected by the Lord and certain to bring condemnation and ruination. They see the spending of money this way as &#8220;wrong&#8221; or the counting of people in that way as &#8220;wrong.&#8221;  They become bitter and in their bitterness, they become hurtful.</p>
<p>While I wouldn&#8217;t say that such a person is not a Christian (they may or may not be), I would say that their heart has surely not comprehended the fullness of the Gospel of Grace.</p>
<p>Grace covers the imperfections of our lives. Grace not only gets us to eternity, but Grace also gets us through the day.  When we are confronted with either the willful rebellion of our hearts or the inadvertent shortcomings of a fallen mind, Grace covers all.</p>
<p>And when we are covered by Grace, when our hearts are satisfied in the free gift of God&#8217;s unmerited favor, it is not just easy, but it is also natural, to extend grace to others around us.</p>
<p>The heart that wallows in the Grace of God takes no offense in the rebellion or imperfection of those around.  When the service of a waiter is slow and lethargic, Grace manifests itself in a generous tip, rather than the stinginess of heart that counts wrongs against another.  When you are verbally attacked by another parent at the game because their child didn&#8217;t play the position or time they expected, Grace listens patiently and realizes that the person spewing venom is in need of something much deeper than they have.</p>
<p>The extension of Grace to them in that moment will likely be the rare exception in their life and will surely be the clearest picture of the Gospel that they will see that day. Month. Year? Lifetime?</p>
<p>To the pure, all things are pure.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/02/23/the-right-fight/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: The Right Fight">The Right Fight</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/13/broken-pt-2/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Broken&#8230; Pt. 2">Broken&#8230; Pt. 2</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/11/01/water/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Water">Water</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2005/09/29/oral-sex-among-teens/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Oral Sex Among Teens">Oral Sex Among Teens</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/07/26/in-defense-of-ben/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: In Defense of Ben">In Defense of Ben</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Book Review: The Generous Soul</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2010/11/16/book-review-the-generous-soul/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2010/11/16/book-review-the-generous-soul/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Book Review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Missional]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[book review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[<p><a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-2049" title="The-Generous-Soul-A-Theology-of-Missional-Giving-web" src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/The-Generous-Soul-A-Theology-of-Missional-Giving-web-200x300.gif" alt="" width="146" height="219" /></a>My friend, Marty Duren, has written his second book, <em><a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">The Generous Soul</a><a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">: An Introduction to Missional Giving</a>.</em></p>
<p>If you are not well versed in the thought processes that are huddled together under the umbrella of &#8220;Missionality,&#8221; then the title of the book may give you pause.  You might not see the need to purchase and read a book about giving money &#8220;Missionally.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you allow these thoughts to keep you from reading TGS, you make a grave mistake.</p>
<p><em>The Generous Soul</em> is about stewardship.  <strong>Authentic stewardship</strong> rather than what is often passed around Christian culture, the avoidance of debt to build personal wealth.</p>
<p>Rather, the stewardship advanced in TGS is a holistic stewardship that more accurately squares with the full testimony of Scripture:  All things were made by God, we are responsible for the influence of some of it, &#8220;our&#8221; whole lives and all of &#8220;our&#8221; possessions are intended to be used to advance the Kingdom of God.</p>
<p>Throughout the book, Duren uses anecdotes, Scripture and quotes from saintly and secular to weave a compelling vision of using all that one is able in the pursuit of God&#8217;s Mission, the redemption of creation.</p>
<p>I am still struggling with the convictions that I suffered upon my first reading.  Though I consider myself to be committed to a missional lifestyle, I immediately recognized that the wake of my impact on the world has been greatly reduced by simple decisions common to the American Christian.</p>
<p>I have not been the steward of God&#8217;s creation that I could have been, and the truth of that came into sharp relief with a new inspiration.  A desire has taken root in me to make a bigger difference and to use all that I can in the effort.  I believe that I, myself, in partnership with my lovely wife, can really make a difference in the world.</p>
<p>Missional Giving.</p>
<p>Is it a &#8220;new&#8221; thought, deserving of a &#8220;new&#8221; name?  Not really.  It is as old as the Gospel itself.  However, for Christians in the West, it is a thought in need of being recaptured, internalized and lived.</p>
<p>This book would be helpful to every Christian, and I wholeheartedly recommend it to you.  It is available through <a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">Amazon</a>, <a title="Barnes &amp; Noble|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Generous-Soul/Marty-Duren/e/9780982571941/?itm=1" target="_blank">Barnes &amp; Noble</a>, Lifeway (local bookstores) and various other booksellers.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2010/11/16/book-review-the-generous-soul/">November 16, 2010</a>, <a href='http://martyduren.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Marty Duren</a> writes: Thanks, Art. I appreciate you taking the time to do the review.</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/02/14/book-review-journeys/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Book Review:  Journeys">Book Review:  Journeys</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/08/09/book-tag/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Book Tag">Book Tag</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/02/14/glocalization-bill-curtis-namb-traditional-missional-church/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Pre-Jackson Run Down">Pre-Jackson Run Down</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/14/movie-quote/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Movie Quote">Movie Quote</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/03/01/dont-buy-durens-book-journeys/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Don&#8217;t buy Duren&#8217;s Book, Journeys">Don&#8217;t buy Duren&#8217;s Book, Journeys</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p><a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-2049" title="The-Generous-Soul-A-Theology-of-Missional-Giving-web" src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/The-Generous-Soul-A-Theology-of-Missional-Giving-web-200x300.gif" alt="" width="146" height="219" /></a>My friend, Marty Duren, has written his second book, <em><a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">The Generous Soul</a><a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">: An Introduction to Missional Giving</a>.</em></p>
<p>If you are not well versed in the thought processes that are huddled together under the umbrella of &#8220;Missionality,&#8221; then the title of the book may give you pause.  You might not see the need to purchase and read a book about giving money &#8220;Missionally.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you allow these thoughts to keep you from reading TGS, you make a grave mistake.</p>
<p><em>The Generous Soul</em> is about stewardship.  <strong>Authentic stewardship</strong> rather than what is often passed around Christian culture, the avoidance of debt to build personal wealth.</p>
<p>Rather, the stewardship advanced in TGS is a holistic stewardship that more accurately squares with the full testimony of Scripture:  All things were made by God, we are responsible for the influence of some of it, &#8220;our&#8221; whole lives and all of &#8220;our&#8221; possessions are intended to be used to advance the Kingdom of God.</p>
<p>Throughout the book, Duren uses anecdotes, Scripture and quotes from saintly and secular to weave a compelling vision of using all that one is able in the pursuit of God&#8217;s Mission, the redemption of creation.</p>
<p>I am still struggling with the convictions that I suffered upon my first reading.  Though I consider myself to be committed to a missional lifestyle, I immediately recognized that the wake of my impact on the world has been greatly reduced by simple decisions common to the American Christian.</p>
<p>I have not been the steward of God&#8217;s creation that I could have been, and the truth of that came into sharp relief with a new inspiration.  A desire has taken root in me to make a bigger difference and to use all that I can in the effort.  I believe that I, myself, in partnership with my lovely wife, can really make a difference in the world.</p>
<p>Missional Giving.</p>
<p>Is it a &#8220;new&#8221; thought, deserving of a &#8220;new&#8221; name?  Not really.  It is as old as the Gospel itself.  However, for Christians in the West, it is a thought in need of being recaptured, internalized and lived.</p>
<p>This book would be helpful to every Christian, and I wholeheartedly recommend it to you.  It is available through <a title="Amazon|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://www.amazon.com/Generous-Soul-Introduction-Missional-Giving/dp/0982571941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1289902495&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank">Amazon</a>, <a title="Barnes &amp; Noble|The Generous Soul: An Introduction to Missional Giving" href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Generous-Soul/Marty-Duren/e/9780982571941/?itm=1" target="_blank">Barnes &amp; Noble</a>, Lifeway (local bookstores) and various other booksellers.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2010/11/16/book-review-the-generous-soul/">November 16, 2010</a>, <a href='http://martyduren.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Marty Duren</a> writes: Thanks, Art. I appreciate you taking the time to do the review.</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/02/14/book-review-journeys/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Book Review:  Journeys">Book Review:  Journeys</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/08/09/book-tag/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Book Tag">Book Tag</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/02/14/glocalization-bill-curtis-namb-traditional-missional-church/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Pre-Jackson Run Down">Pre-Jackson Run Down</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/14/movie-quote/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Movie Quote">Movie Quote</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/03/01/dont-buy-durens-book-journeys/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Don&#8217;t buy Duren&#8217;s Book, Journeys">Don&#8217;t buy Duren&#8217;s Book, Journeys</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Quotable</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/05/28/quotable/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/05/28/quotable/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 05:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=1675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Apparently this made a hit with Skelly&#8217;s <a title="David Knuckles|You Said What?" href="http://davidknuckles.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/you-said-what/" target="_blank">Worship and Young Adult Pastor</a>&#8230;</p>
<p>Acknowledging the distance we have all moved theologically, I said:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>We all believed those things, but then we grew up and read the Bible for ourselves.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p><strong><br />
</strong></p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>Apparently this made a hit with Skelly&#8217;s <a title="David Knuckles|You Said What?" href="http://davidknuckles.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/you-said-what/" target="_blank">Worship and Young Adult Pastor</a>&#8230;</p>
<p>Acknowledging the distance we have all moved theologically, I said:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>We all believed those things, but then we grew up and read the Bible for ourselves.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p><strong><br />
</strong></p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Salvation and the Disciple&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/04/27/salvation-and-the-disciple/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/04/27/salvation-and-the-disciple/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[<p>Salvation:  You can do nothing to earn it, but once havign received it, you forfeit everything in return.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/02/12/minimum-for-the-growing-disciple/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Minimum for the Growing Disciple">Minimum for the Growing Disciple</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/04/02/salvation-essentials/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Salvation Essentials">Salvation Essentials</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/11/25/does-baptism-count-if/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Does baptism count if&#8230;">Does baptism count if&#8230;</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/24/funny-preacher-video-for-the-weekend/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Funny Preacher Video for the Weekend">Funny Preacher Video for the Weekend</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/09/10/reggie-mcneal-2a/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Reggie McNeal 2a">Reggie McNeal 2a</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>Salvation:  You can do nothing to earn it, but once havign received it, you forfeit everything in return.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/02/12/minimum-for-the-growing-disciple/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Minimum for the Growing Disciple">Minimum for the Growing Disciple</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/04/02/salvation-essentials/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Salvation Essentials">Salvation Essentials</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/11/25/does-baptism-count-if/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Does baptism count if&#8230;">Does baptism count if&#8230;</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/24/funny-preacher-video-for-the-weekend/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Funny Preacher Video for the Weekend">Funny Preacher Video for the Weekend</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/09/10/reggie-mcneal-2a/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Reggie McNeal 2a">Reggie McNeal 2a</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Songs about Heaven</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/04/14/songs-about-heaven/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/04/14/songs-about-heaven/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Missional]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=1629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I was with some fellow American believers the other day and we were looking through a collection of old songbooks that they had.  Some predated me, but others brought back some songs that I sang as a teenager.  It was somewhat humorous remembering some of the songs that were so shallow from that era. We joined in singing several to give a hint to the younger ones in the crowd what the songs were like, and that was even more humorous &#8211; us signing badly.</p>
<p>Then a few older songs of heaven came up and the question was asked, &#8220;Why do Senior Adults enjoy songs of Heaven so much?&#8221; since they seem to be favorites of many of the seniors we know.</p>
<p>The consensus was that Heaven was probably on their minds, and it was a comfort to them to know where they are going.</p>
<p>The next day I was driving home from dropping my kids at school and Jeremy Camp came on the radio with the song, &#8220;There will be a day.&#8221;</p>
<p>I realized that our fondness for singing of Heaven was not generational.  As I thought about it, it seemed to me that American Christians have always sung of Heaven, seeking comfort.</p>
<p>Why is that?  Do Christians from every culture do this? Some certainly have more hardships than others.</p>
<p>It seems that, while Heaven is a great promise and one to which I cling, Paul points us to a longing for living here as a servant to the Kingdom being just as strong a pull:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><sup id="en-HCSB-29555" class="versenum">20</sup> My eager expectation and hope is that I will not be ashamed about anything, but that now as always, with all boldness, Christ will be highly honored in my body, whether by life or by death.</strong></p>
<p><strong> <sup id="en-HCSB-29556" class="versenum">21</sup> For me, living is Christ and dying is gain.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29557" class="versenum">22</sup> Now if I live on in the flesh, this means fruitful work for me; and I don&#8217;t know which one I should choose.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29558" class="versenum">23</sup> I am pressured by both. I have the desire to depart and be with Christ —which is far better —  <sup id="en-HCSB-29559" class="versenum">24</sup> but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29560" class="versenum">25</sup> Since I am persuaded of this, I know that I will remain and continue with all of you for your advancement and joy in the faith,  <sup id="en-HCSB-29561" class="versenum">26</sup> so that, because of me, your confidence may grow in Christ Jesus when I come to you again.</strong><strong> <sup id="en-HCSB-29562" class="versenum">27</sup> Just one thing: live your life in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or am absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind, working side by side for the faith of the gospel,  <sup id="en-HCSB-29563" class="versenum">28</sup> not being frightened in any way by your opponents. This is evidence of their destruction, but of your deliverance —and this is from God.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29564" class="versenum">29</sup> For it has been given to you on Christ&#8217;s behalf not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him,  <sup id="en-HCSB-29565" class="versenum">30</sup> having the same struggle that you saw I had and now hear about me.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Philippians 1:20-30<br />
</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>It seems that we ought to long equally as much to be of some Kingdom use here.  In this world and in this time.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven">Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/09/13/ray-boltz-confesses-he-is-gay/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Ray Boltz confesses he is gay">Ray Boltz confesses he is gay</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/05/08/10-things-we-don%e2%80%99t-mention/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: 10 things we don’t mention &#8230;">10 things we don’t mention &#8230;</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/13/broken-pt-2/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Broken&#8230; Pt. 2">Broken&#8230; Pt. 2</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/06/05/funeral-today-for-a-veteran-and-a-friend/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend">Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>I was with some fellow American believers the other day and we were looking through a collection of old songbooks that they had.  Some predated me, but others brought back some songs that I sang as a teenager.  It was somewhat humorous remembering some of the songs that were so shallow from that era. We joined in singing several to give a hint to the younger ones in the crowd what the songs were like, and that was even more humorous &#8211; us signing badly.</p>
<p>Then a few older songs of heaven came up and the question was asked, &#8220;Why do Senior Adults enjoy songs of Heaven so much?&#8221; since they seem to be favorites of many of the seniors we know.</p>
<p>The consensus was that Heaven was probably on their minds, and it was a comfort to them to know where they are going.</p>
<p>The next day I was driving home from dropping my kids at school and Jeremy Camp came on the radio with the song, &#8220;There will be a day.&#8221;</p>
<p>I realized that our fondness for singing of Heaven was not generational.  As I thought about it, it seemed to me that American Christians have always sung of Heaven, seeking comfort.</p>
<p>Why is that?  Do Christians from every culture do this? Some certainly have more hardships than others.</p>
<p>It seems that, while Heaven is a great promise and one to which I cling, Paul points us to a longing for living here as a servant to the Kingdom being just as strong a pull:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><sup id="en-HCSB-29555" class="versenum">20</sup> My eager expectation and hope is that I will not be ashamed about anything, but that now as always, with all boldness, Christ will be highly honored in my body, whether by life or by death.</strong></p>
<p><strong> <sup id="en-HCSB-29556" class="versenum">21</sup> For me, living is Christ and dying is gain.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29557" class="versenum">22</sup> Now if I live on in the flesh, this means fruitful work for me; and I don&#8217;t know which one I should choose.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29558" class="versenum">23</sup> I am pressured by both. I have the desire to depart and be with Christ —which is far better —  <sup id="en-HCSB-29559" class="versenum">24</sup> but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29560" class="versenum">25</sup> Since I am persuaded of this, I know that I will remain and continue with all of you for your advancement and joy in the faith,  <sup id="en-HCSB-29561" class="versenum">26</sup> so that, because of me, your confidence may grow in Christ Jesus when I come to you again.</strong><strong> <sup id="en-HCSB-29562" class="versenum">27</sup> Just one thing: live your life in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or am absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind, working side by side for the faith of the gospel,  <sup id="en-HCSB-29563" class="versenum">28</sup> not being frightened in any way by your opponents. This is evidence of their destruction, but of your deliverance —and this is from God.  <sup id="en-HCSB-29564" class="versenum">29</sup> For it has been given to you on Christ&#8217;s behalf not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him,  <sup id="en-HCSB-29565" class="versenum">30</sup> having the same struggle that you saw I had and now hear about me.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Philippians 1:20-30<br />
</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>It seems that we ought to long equally as much to be of some Kingdom use here.  In this world and in this time.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven">Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/09/13/ray-boltz-confesses-he-is-gay/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Ray Boltz confesses he is gay">Ray Boltz confesses he is gay</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/05/08/10-things-we-don%e2%80%99t-mention/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: 10 things we don’t mention &#8230;">10 things we don’t mention &#8230;</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/13/broken-pt-2/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Broken&#8230; Pt. 2">Broken&#8230; Pt. 2</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/06/05/funeral-today-for-a-veteran-and-a-friend/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend">Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Video:  I think my wife&#8217;s a calvinist&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Fun]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[SBC]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=1365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Calvinists poking fun at themselves.  Who says that the Sovereign Grace crowd has no sense of humor?</p>
<p><object width="425" height="350" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/GZdoSG0IdNE&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GZdoSG0IdNE&amp;rel=0" /></object></p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 3, 2009</a>, <a href='http://brushforkbanner.blogspot.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Pastor Jim</a> writes: That is the funniest thing I've ever heard--irresistable humor.

<abbr><em>Pastor Jims last blog post..<a href="http://brushforkbanner.blogspot.com/2009/01/frees-for-me.html" rel="nofollow">Free's for me...</a></abbr></em></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 14, 2009</a>, Jy writes: brandonmilan.wordpress.com I think he might just be making fun of Calvinists without totally being one!</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 17, 2009</a>, <a href='http://www.myall4one.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Pregador27</a> writes: Even if he's making fun of Calvinists- or trying to- it is funny and would actually be in better taste coming from a Calvinist.  Thank you for posting this!  A tattoo that says 'I heart John Piper in greek...'  that was the best!  Maybe I'll get one....  hmmm....</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 17, 2009</a>, <a href='http://twelvewitnesses.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>art rogers</a> writes: <p>@Pregador27: </p>
I think that these guys are Calvinists.  There's no way that non-Calvinists are going to understand and perceive the Doctrines of Grace with that level of intimacy, I believe.</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 17, 2009</a>, <a href='http://www.myall4one.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Pregador27</a> writes: I checked out the originating site and he leans toward the Reformed understanding.  Either way it would be a good song.  BTW- I &lt;3 John Piper too!  YEAH!  Thanks.</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/05/23/page-and-calvinism/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Page and Calvinism">Page and Calvinism</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/03/03/travel-tips-video/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Travel Tips Video">Travel Tips Video</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/07/05/this-is-good-stuff/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: This is good stuff.">This is good stuff.</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/06/13/founders-breakfast/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Founder&#8217;s Breakfast">Founder&#8217;s Breakfast</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/05/25/dever-for-1vp/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Dever for 1VP">Dever for 1VP</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>Calvinists poking fun at themselves.  Who says that the Sovereign Grace crowd has no sense of humor?</p>
<p><object width="425" height="350" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/GZdoSG0IdNE&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GZdoSG0IdNE&amp;rel=0" /></object></p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 3, 2009</a>, <a href='http://brushforkbanner.blogspot.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Pastor Jim</a> writes: That is the funniest thing I've ever heard--irresistable humor.

<abbr><em>Pastor Jims last blog post..<a href="http://brushforkbanner.blogspot.com/2009/01/frees-for-me.html" rel="nofollow">Free's for me...</a></abbr></em></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 14, 2009</a>, Jy writes: brandonmilan.wordpress.com I think he might just be making fun of Calvinists without totally being one!</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 17, 2009</a>, <a href='http://www.myall4one.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Pregador27</a> writes: Even if he's making fun of Calvinists- or trying to- it is funny and would actually be in better taste coming from a Calvinist.  Thank you for posting this!  A tattoo that says 'I heart John Piper in greek...'  that was the best!  Maybe I'll get one....  hmmm....</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 17, 2009</a>, <a href='http://twelvewitnesses.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>art rogers</a> writes: <p>@Pregador27: </p>
I think that these guys are Calvinists.  There's no way that non-Calvinists are going to understand and perceive the Doctrines of Grace with that level of intimacy, I believe.</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/03/video-i-think-my-wifes-a-calvinist/">January 17, 2009</a>, <a href='http://www.myall4one.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Pregador27</a> writes: I checked out the originating site and he leans toward the Reformed understanding.  Either way it would be a good song.  BTW- I &lt;3 John Piper too!  YEAH!  Thanks.</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/05/23/page-and-calvinism/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Page and Calvinism">Page and Calvinism</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/03/03/travel-tips-video/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Travel Tips Video">Travel Tips Video</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/07/05/this-is-good-stuff/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: This is good stuff.">This is good stuff.</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/06/13/founders-breakfast/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Founder&#8217;s Breakfast">Founder&#8217;s Breakfast</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2006/05/25/dever-for-1vp/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Dever for 1VP">Dever for 1VP</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Missional Non-Conference with David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/12/16/missional-non-conference-with-david-fitch/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/12/16/missional-non-conference-with-david-fitch/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Conferences]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Missional]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ministry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=1325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>David Fitch has announced a Missional Non-Conference (no fees, no one selling anything) in Ft. Wayne, Indiana January 3.</p>
<p>If you are interested in attending, he&#8217;d like for you to email.  You can get more information at David&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/2008/12/announcing-missional-nonconference.html">Missional Non-Conference</a>.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/12/16/missional-non-conference-with-david-fitch/">December 17, 2008</a>, <a href='http://relevintage.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>brad andrews</a> writes: art,
dave is one of my faves.  i am going to go to one of these in the future.  can't justify it right after christmas.  too bad tulsa is further from chicago than st. louis.  maybe you, clint, and i can take a trip up there in the future.  that would be rad!

<abbr><em>brad andrewss last blog post..<a href="http://transformission.com/extractd-16/" rel="nofollow">extract’d</a></abbr></em></li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/12/18/david-fitch-on-missional-orders-as-church-planting/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: David Fitch on Missional Orders as Church Planting">David Fitch on Missional Orders as Church Planting</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/12/great-missional-conversation-between-stetzer-and-fitch/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Great Missional Conversation between Stetzer and Fitch">Great Missional Conversation between Stetzer and Fitch</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/11/03/ed-stetzer-david-fitch/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch">Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/10/07/some-missional-thoughts-from-david-phillips/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Some Missional thoughts from David Phillips">Some Missional thoughts from David Phillips</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/29/dr-david-dockery-timmy-brister-southern-baptist-convention/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Dr. Dockery Interview and Live Blog">Dr. Dockery Interview and Live Blog</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>David Fitch has announced a Missional Non-Conference (no fees, no one selling anything) in Ft. Wayne, Indiana January 3.</p>
<p>If you are interested in attending, he&#8217;d like for you to email.  You can get more information at David&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/2008/12/announcing-missional-nonconference.html">Missional Non-Conference</a>.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/12/16/missional-non-conference-with-david-fitch/">December 17, 2008</a>, <a href='http://relevintage.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>brad andrews</a> writes: art,
dave is one of my faves.  i am going to go to one of these in the future.  can't justify it right after christmas.  too bad tulsa is further from chicago than st. louis.  maybe you, clint, and i can take a trip up there in the future.  that would be rad!

<abbr><em>brad andrewss last blog post..<a href="http://transformission.com/extractd-16/" rel="nofollow">extract’d</a></abbr></em></li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/12/18/david-fitch-on-missional-orders-as-church-planting/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: David Fitch on Missional Orders as Church Planting">David Fitch on Missional Orders as Church Planting</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/01/12/great-missional-conversation-between-stetzer-and-fitch/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Great Missional Conversation between Stetzer and Fitch">Great Missional Conversation between Stetzer and Fitch</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/11/03/ed-stetzer-david-fitch/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch">Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/10/07/some-missional-thoughts-from-david-phillips/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Some Missional thoughts from David Phillips">Some Missional thoughts from David Phillips</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/29/dr-david-dockery-timmy-brister-southern-baptist-convention/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Dr. Dockery Interview and Live Blog">Dr. Dockery Interview and Live Blog</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Movie Quote</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/14/movie-quote/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/14/movie-quote/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[General Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[movie quote]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[movies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>With deference to the prolific memorable dialog from Doc Holiday in Tombstone, I have a new movie quote from a movie not widely viewed, but which I have come to enjoy.</p>
<p>The movie is &#8220;<a title="IMDB  Stranger than Fiction" href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420223/" target="_blank">Stranger Than Fiction</a>&#8221; and it follows IRS agent Harold Crick as he begins to hear the narration of his life by author Karen Eiffel, though she is unknown to him at the time.  This isn&#8217;t a review &#8211; I may do that some other time &#8211; but just to set up this long quote by the author at the end of the movie.  It turns out the author is writing a novel and has writer&#8217;s block.  She&#8217;s been writing this book for ten years.  It so happens that the narrative of her story is the narrative of Harold&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>That narrative revolves around Harold&#8217;s drab existence that blossoms into love:  for life, for his only friend and for Miss Pascal &#8211; a lady, very different from himself, whom he is auditing &#8211; as Eiffel struggles to end her book.  And the story is about Harold&#8217;s watch, which is ignored by Harold but is anthropomorphic and becomes its own character.  The hitch is that the book she is writing, the narrative of Harold Crick&#8217;s existence, is fictional in her mind, but is actually the very real narrative of Harold&#8217;s life.  And thoughts.  And feelings.  And she kills people.  And Harold, struggling with the already disconcerting experience of hearing his life narrated in his head then hears the line, &#8220;Little did he know that this seemingly innocuous act would lead to his immanent death.&#8221;</p>
<p>At this point, he gets quite concerned.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, Eiffel has been in a ten year writer&#8217;s block, but her previous books all end with the death of the central character, hence, she is struggling to find a way to kill Harold.  Harold begins a frantic search to find her so that he can stop her from killing him and their worlds collide, creating a moral crises.  Apparently the book is no longer just a work of fiction as it seems to govern Harold&#8217;s existence.</p>
<p>It is a well written movie, which is why I have decided that I like it, and filled with stars like, Will Ferrell (Harold), Maggie Gyllenhaal (Ana Pascal), Dustin Hoffman (Prof. Hilbert), Emma Thompson (Karen Eiffel) and Queen Latifah (Penny Escher).  And there are more.  The two guys from those Sonic commercials are IRS agents.  Very well cast and funny for those who enjoy dry wit.</p>
<p>Anyway, the movie deals with the issue of free will and destiny, albeit not from a theological perspective.  As such, some parts fascinate me as to the imprint of God&#8217;s presence on the world.  Here is the final quote from Karen Eiffel after she relents from killing Harold who, instead of dying, is critically injured saving the life of a child.  I guess I wrote a review after all.  It&#8217;s a long quote that makes even more sense in the movie, but I think you might enjoy it.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>As Harold took a bite of Bavarian Sugar Cookie, he finally felt as if everything was going to be &#8220;ok.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p><strong>Sometimes, when we lose ourselves in fear and despair, in routine and constancy, in hopelessness and tragedy, we can thank God for Bavarian Sugar Cookies. </strong></p>
<p><strong>And fortunately, when there aren&#8217;t any cookies we can still find reassurance in a familiar hand on our skin. </strong></p>
<p><strong>Or a kind and loving gesture.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or a subtle encouragement.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or a loving embrace.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or an offer of comfort.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Not to mention&#8230;</strong></p>
<p><strong>Hospital gurneys.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And nose plugs.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And uneaten danish.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And soft spoken secrets.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And Fender Stratocasters.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And, maybe, the occasional piece of fiction.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And we must remember that all these things, the nuances, the anomalies, the subtleties, which we assume only accessorize our days are, in fact, here for a much larger and nobler cause. </strong></p>
<p><strong>They are here to save our lives.</strong></p>
<p><strong>I know the idea seems strange.  But I also know that it just so happens to be true.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And so it was a wristwatch saved Harold Crick.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Romans 8:28 &#8211; And we know that in all things God works to the good of them who love Him,who have been called according to His purpose.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/14/movie-quote/">July 16, 2008</a>, Jimmy Strong writes: Nuances, anomalies and subtleties. Hhhmmmmm.....</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/28/institutional-v-missional-church-structure/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Institutional v. Missional Church:  Structure">Institutional v. Missional Church:  Structure</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/ivm/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: I V M">I V M</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/28/movie-quote-hope/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Movie Quote:  Hope">Movie Quote:  Hope</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/25/movie-quote-institutionalized/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Movie Quote:  Institutionalized">Movie Quote:  Institutionalized</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/11/03/ed-stetzer-david-fitch/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch">Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>With deference to the prolific memorable dialog from Doc Holiday in Tombstone, I have a new movie quote from a movie not widely viewed, but which I have come to enjoy.</p>
<p>The movie is &#8220;<a title="IMDB  Stranger than Fiction" href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420223/" target="_blank">Stranger Than Fiction</a>&#8221; and it follows IRS agent Harold Crick as he begins to hear the narration of his life by author Karen Eiffel, though she is unknown to him at the time.  This isn&#8217;t a review &#8211; I may do that some other time &#8211; but just to set up this long quote by the author at the end of the movie.  It turns out the author is writing a novel and has writer&#8217;s block.  She&#8217;s been writing this book for ten years.  It so happens that the narrative of her story is the narrative of Harold&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>That narrative revolves around Harold&#8217;s drab existence that blossoms into love:  for life, for his only friend and for Miss Pascal &#8211; a lady, very different from himself, whom he is auditing &#8211; as Eiffel struggles to end her book.  And the story is about Harold&#8217;s watch, which is ignored by Harold but is anthropomorphic and becomes its own character.  The hitch is that the book she is writing, the narrative of Harold Crick&#8217;s existence, is fictional in her mind, but is actually the very real narrative of Harold&#8217;s life.  And thoughts.  And feelings.  And she kills people.  And Harold, struggling with the already disconcerting experience of hearing his life narrated in his head then hears the line, &#8220;Little did he know that this seemingly innocuous act would lead to his immanent death.&#8221;</p>
<p>At this point, he gets quite concerned.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, Eiffel has been in a ten year writer&#8217;s block, but her previous books all end with the death of the central character, hence, she is struggling to find a way to kill Harold.  Harold begins a frantic search to find her so that he can stop her from killing him and their worlds collide, creating a moral crises.  Apparently the book is no longer just a work of fiction as it seems to govern Harold&#8217;s existence.</p>
<p>It is a well written movie, which is why I have decided that I like it, and filled with stars like, Will Ferrell (Harold), Maggie Gyllenhaal (Ana Pascal), Dustin Hoffman (Prof. Hilbert), Emma Thompson (Karen Eiffel) and Queen Latifah (Penny Escher).  And there are more.  The two guys from those Sonic commercials are IRS agents.  Very well cast and funny for those who enjoy dry wit.</p>
<p>Anyway, the movie deals with the issue of free will and destiny, albeit not from a theological perspective.  As such, some parts fascinate me as to the imprint of God&#8217;s presence on the world.  Here is the final quote from Karen Eiffel after she relents from killing Harold who, instead of dying, is critically injured saving the life of a child.  I guess I wrote a review after all.  It&#8217;s a long quote that makes even more sense in the movie, but I think you might enjoy it.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>As Harold took a bite of Bavarian Sugar Cookie, he finally felt as if everything was going to be &#8220;ok.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p><strong>Sometimes, when we lose ourselves in fear and despair, in routine and constancy, in hopelessness and tragedy, we can thank God for Bavarian Sugar Cookies. </strong></p>
<p><strong>And fortunately, when there aren&#8217;t any cookies we can still find reassurance in a familiar hand on our skin. </strong></p>
<p><strong>Or a kind and loving gesture.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or a subtle encouragement.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or a loving embrace.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Or an offer of comfort.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Not to mention&#8230;</strong></p>
<p><strong>Hospital gurneys.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And nose plugs.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And uneaten danish.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And soft spoken secrets.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And Fender Stratocasters.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And, maybe, the occasional piece of fiction.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And we must remember that all these things, the nuances, the anomalies, the subtleties, which we assume only accessorize our days are, in fact, here for a much larger and nobler cause. </strong></p>
<p><strong>They are here to save our lives.</strong></p>
<p><strong>I know the idea seems strange.  But I also know that it just so happens to be true.</strong></p>
<p><strong>And so it was a wristwatch saved Harold Crick.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Romans 8:28 &#8211; And we know that in all things God works to the good of them who love Him,who have been called according to His purpose.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/14/movie-quote/">July 16, 2008</a>, Jimmy Strong writes: Nuances, anomalies and subtleties. Hhhmmmmm.....</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/28/institutional-v-missional-church-structure/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Institutional v. Missional Church:  Structure">Institutional v. Missional Church:  Structure</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/ivm/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: I V M">I V M</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/28/movie-quote-hope/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Movie Quote:  Hope">Movie Quote:  Hope</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/25/movie-quote-institutionalized/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Movie Quote:  Institutionalized">Movie Quote:  Institutionalized</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/11/03/ed-stetzer-david-fitch/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch">Ed Stetzer &#038; David Fitch</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>It is one of the hardest things to explain.  Especially to grieving families.  Can you assure them their child is in Heaven.  I have always attempted to do so, though I often admitted that my Scriptural validation for my belief was more or less founded in the goodness of God and His mercy.</p>
<p>The alternative is the cobbled together and poorly thought out, completely un-Scriptural &#8220;doctrines&#8221; such as the &#8220;age of accountability.&#8221;</p>
<p>Recently, Drs. Danny Akin and Al Mohler, Seminary Presidents of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, respectively, have produced a series of concise arguments from Scripture to lend a sense of affirmation to the belief that infants that die go to Heaven.</p>
<p><a href="http://betweenthetimes.com/2008/06/24/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">Between The Times|Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven</a></p>
<p>While some of the arguments edge quite close to the &#8220;age of accountability&#8221; thought process, though not crossing the line, some are better.  Such as David&#8217;s sense of confidence in seeing his lost infant son again, and the vast multitudes of saints in Heaven that appear to possibly outnumber those that have lived to adulthood in service to the Lord.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve ever struggled with the loss of a child, this article should bring some sense of comfort to you.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">July 3, 2008</a>, <a href='http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Bob Cleveland</a> writes: Two things about this topic have really held my interest lately. One is that nobody ever seems to refer to Isaiah 7 in the discussion. We all know 7:14, but the following two verses, twice, refer to a time when Jesus Himself did not yet know enough to "reject the wrong and choose the right". I think that's a little clue there that this God-Man didn't, at one time, know right from wrong. I can think of no other reason for those statements in the Word, than if He wasn't expected to, neither could mere mortals.

Second is that I'd really rather trust God, than my own ability to assemble enough "facts" to soothe myself about any particular issue. If God isn't the God of love He says He is, and has shown Himself to be, then there isn't much hope for anybody. Young or old. (Last statements are, of course, absent any scripture dealing explicitly with the issue.)

Bob Clevelands last blog post..<a href="http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2008/06/i-got-your-flip-right-here-pal.html" rel="nofollow">I Got Your &quot;Flip&quot; Right Here, Pal......</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">July 5, 2008</a>, <a href='http://davestuff.us' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Hip Opinion</a> writes: To go further... What if you have a child that has severe  mental illness... He knows (seems) right from wrong. Yet his illness cause him to do bad things... And he is certainly past the "age of accountability" by a long shot...

He hears voices. 
Get's violent.
Acts out sexually.

He was baptized but I suspect he doesn't know what that means...

And then suddenly a car crash.
Is he in heaven or hell?</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">July 8, 2008</a>, <a href='http://twelvewitnesses.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>art rogers</a> writes: Dave, (HO)

First, I'll give you a dollar for every time you find the "age of accountability" in Scripture.  It ain't there.

Second, to answer your question, I believe there is a valid argument to be made that he or she is in Heaven, which is the point of this post and the article that I referenced.</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/04/14/songs-about-heaven/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Songs about Heaven">Songs about Heaven</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2005/10/13/idolatry/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Idolatry?">Idolatry?</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/03/26/simple-things-learned/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Simple Things Learned">Simple Things Learned</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/06/05/funeral-today-for-a-veteran-and-a-friend/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend">Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/04/23/leaving-church-pt-1/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Leaving Church, pt 1.">Leaving Church, pt 1.</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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</span><p>It is one of the hardest things to explain.  Especially to grieving families.  Can you assure them their child is in Heaven.  I have always attempted to do so, though I often admitted that my Scriptural validation for my belief was more or less founded in the goodness of God and His mercy.</p>
<p>The alternative is the cobbled together and poorly thought out, completely un-Scriptural &#8220;doctrines&#8221; such as the &#8220;age of accountability.&#8221;</p>
<p>Recently, Drs. Danny Akin and Al Mohler, Seminary Presidents of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, respectively, have produced a series of concise arguments from Scripture to lend a sense of affirmation to the belief that infants that die go to Heaven.</p>
<p><a href="http://betweenthetimes.com/2008/06/24/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">Between The Times|Why We Believe Children Who Die Go to Heaven</a></p>
<p>While some of the arguments edge quite close to the &#8220;age of accountability&#8221; thought process, though not crossing the line, some are better.  Such as David&#8217;s sense of confidence in seeing his lost infant son again, and the vast multitudes of saints in Heaven that appear to possibly outnumber those that have lived to adulthood in service to the Lord.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve ever struggled with the loss of a child, this article should bring some sense of comfort to you.</p>
<img src="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/eadd809f/266bb3ec/CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html).gif" /><hr /><h2>Comments</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">July 3, 2008</a>, <a href='http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Bob Cleveland</a> writes: Two things about this topic have really held my interest lately. One is that nobody ever seems to refer to Isaiah 7 in the discussion. We all know 7:14, but the following two verses, twice, refer to a time when Jesus Himself did not yet know enough to "reject the wrong and choose the right". I think that's a little clue there that this God-Man didn't, at one time, know right from wrong. I can think of no other reason for those statements in the Word, than if He wasn't expected to, neither could mere mortals.

Second is that I'd really rather trust God, than my own ability to assemble enough "facts" to soothe myself about any particular issue. If God isn't the God of love He says He is, and has shown Himself to be, then there isn't much hope for anybody. Young or old. (Last statements are, of course, absent any scripture dealing explicitly with the issue.)

Bob Clevelands last blog post..<a href="http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2008/06/i-got-your-flip-right-here-pal.html" rel="nofollow">I Got Your &quot;Flip&quot; Right Here, Pal......</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">July 5, 2008</a>, <a href='http://davestuff.us' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>Hip Opinion</a> writes: To go further... What if you have a child that has severe  mental illness... He knows (seems) right from wrong. Yet his illness cause him to do bad things... And he is certainly past the "age of accountability" by a long shot...

He hears voices. 
Get's violent.
Acts out sexually.

He was baptized but I suspect he doesn't know what that means...

And then suddenly a car crash.
Is he in heaven or hell?</li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/07/03/why-we-believe-children-who-die-go-to-heaven/">July 8, 2008</a>, <a href='http://twelvewitnesses.com' rel='external nofollow' class='url'>art rogers</a> writes: Dave, (HO)

First, I'll give you a dollar for every time you find the "age of accountability" in Scripture.  It ain't there.

Second, to answer your question, I believe there is a valid argument to be made that he or she is in Heaven, which is the point of this post and the article that I referenced.</li></ul><hr /><h2>Related posts:</h2><ul><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2009/04/14/songs-about-heaven/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Songs about Heaven">Songs about Heaven</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2005/10/13/idolatry/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Idolatry?">Idolatry?</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/03/26/simple-things-learned/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Simple Things Learned">Simple Things Learned</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/06/05/funeral-today-for-a-veteran-and-a-friend/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend">Funeral Today for a Veteran and a Friend</a></li><li><a href="http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/04/23/leaving-church-pt-1/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Leaving Church, pt 1.">Leaving Church, pt 1.</a></li></ul><hr /><small>Copyright &copy; Art Rogers|12 Witnesses 2008<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. If this content is not in your news reader, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. If you suspect copyright infringement, please contact legal@twelvewitnesses.com.  Thanks.  (Digital Fingerprint:<br /> 4fb9806df94a8f093ce1b84a21d62535 (38.107.179.236) )</small>
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		<title>Why didn&#8217;t Jesus do the writing?</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/16/why-didnt-jesus-do-the-writing/</link>
		<comments>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/16/why-didnt-jesus-do-the-writing/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>art rogers</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Family]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My wife got into a spiritual conversation with some co-workers and one asked this question: "Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?" Her co-worker said that it would have been easier for him to trust the Bible's accuracy and weight if he knew that Christ had written the New Testament, rather than having it left to people to remember what He said and record it.]]></description>
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		<slash:comments>15</slash:comments>
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