Comments on: Exegeting Trends

By: art rogers

art rogers — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:51:56 +0000

Hip,

You seem to be working your way backward through my posts. :)

Well, I agree that the church is beginning to tear down the walls of separation between us and the world. I also agree that most of what separates us is the concept from within the church that we are in the position to judge the world and the lost in it. We aren’t and that is silly.

By: Hip Opinion

Hip Opinion — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:38:30 +0000

Dividing Lines between church and society need to be revamped. The church I have noticed is starting to see this… Considering Jesus’s ministry is important.

**He loved EVERYBODY
** He made it easy for people to walk away
** He hung out with un churched people
** He wasn’t on a cruisade to “police” evil.
** He stayed out of politics
** He openly enjoyed things this world has to offer.

I believe church as usual is coming to an end…All of these dividing lines between secular/Christian popular culture. Sillyness.

It’s good to start living in the Kingdom. Sread the good news that God loves us and will never forsake us. And let the Holy Spirit do work on the hearts of men… It is very exciting now to be a believer.

By: art rogers

art rogers — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:25:18 +0000

Sorry I’ve been out of the discussion on this for a couple of days. My computer is officially terminal, now. I am limping along otherwise, but I’m going to survive, I think. :)

Anyway, Todd, I wanted to ask if you could give an example of a disassociated trend, just so I could wrap my head around what you are saying better.

Bart, awesome thoughts. How can we create a culture within our church of understanding the culture around us? That’s what I think we need to address. We’ve actually got to create a new culture here.

Michael, thanks for the book suggestion. I also think we can leverage culture and use it to communicate. That’s good stuff.

By: Michael Harrison

Michael Harrison — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:12:48 +0000

ART – greetings from VA. Looking forward to couple days in OK the last of this month. Great post on Trends and culture. Our leadership team is reading “POP GOES THE CHURCH” by Tim Stevens which meets what you are saying well. The church has to be and our message must be what will get people talking. Are we willing, really willing to step up and speak out? What people are already talking about and being confronted with is the best place to begin conversations about Jesus. God gives us opportunity daily to speak from what we learn from culture. Good stuff, and be blessed! MICHAEL

PS – great and powerful thoughts, Bart!!!

Michael Harrisons last blog post..church NEWS blog

By: Bart Rhea

Bart Rhea — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:36:10 +0000

Todd brought up the Church as an example. I have been thinking about this culture/trend concept concerning “Church” all day.
I know that SDBC recognized the need to reach a generation that is missing from attending and decided to do something. The hard part has just started, trying to nail down the something. And then get everyone to buy into it.
I’m not ancient but I’m old enough to cling to some of the old traditional ways of doing church. But the more people I talk to my age that have attended Church the bulk of their lives, the theme I hear is that we need to get serious about reaching and hanging on to our kids. We can’t do it the way we use to, and we have to quit talking about it and do something.
I don’t have to become immersed in a culture, I just need to listen and try to understand the culture. Marty’s book is a great example of what a lot of Church’s are going through, it is hard, exciting and hard core missional.
I look forward to continue trying to build relationships and reach a culture different than mine for Christ.
I also know that God will put people in my circle that has the same “trends, favorite food, and similar lifestyle” as mine.
Didn’t Jesus GO TO different cultures? Tax Collectors, fishermen, prostitutes, outcasts, even a man that persecuted the believers. Speaking of Paul, he was very much aware of the culture around him.
Speaking of trends, I still own and wear bell bottom jeans. Just can’t let go.

Bart

By: Marty Duren

Marty Duren — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:07:46 +0000

I’m just jumping in from the top ring rope so it doesn’t look like Todd and Paul are tag teaming Art.

I’ve got the whirleygigs, too, in Firefox 3.

Ed Stetzer, Ed Stetzer, Ed Stetzer. That oughta help the traffic.

Marty Durens last blog post..Taking a Break

By: Todd

Todd — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:40:35 +0000

Art,

I think I am trying to suggest something of a “both/and.”

Let’s use the Church as an example. Churches historically have lagged culture. Much like your illustration of the loss of “hip” lingo in your post. As such, we become enamored with something new that is old. Mega-churches are a dying trend. Certainly there may be a few more popping up as a last gasp for middle-income Americans in a certain socio-economic subgroup who like being lost in the large crowd. Culturally we see a move in something of a different direction. It could be argued the house-church movement tapped this and enjoys the fruits of this subtle but profound move. Generational Theory is helpful but planning community life in the Church around it resulted in fragmentation not community. Every age group must have their age appropriate worship and getting together results in no-less than the Hatfield’s battling the McCoy’s. The wider culture recognized this and many a church leader poo-poo’s one of the emphases of the Emerging Church Movement which long ago suggested the needed for an integrated (both age and ethnicity) community life including worship.

And to the second, yes. I do believe some trends do not necessarily reveal cultural shifts but are events that occur due to the breadth of culture. Some would refer to these kinds of trends as “tempests in teapots.”

By: art rogers

art rogers — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:55:56 +0000

Fascinating.

Bart, I am privileged to be your pastor. You are a great “reacher” toward people.

Todd, I, too, would love for others to join. I was beginning to think it would just be Paul and I, which has certain benefits of its own, but I used to have really great discussions around here and kinda miss it, sometimes.

On to your comment, I am intrigued. Moreover, I have a question. How are some trends not connect to the culture?

Or, are you saying that some trends are not deeply revelatory of the culture? I would totally buy that.

By: Todd

Todd — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:52:50 +0000

Art,
Good discussion starter. Mention Ed Stetzer in a blog post and traffic runs wild. I am hoping more people will weigh in on this post so it will not look like Paul and I are tag teaming. :)

Maybe it would be best to simply ditto Paul’s take on the difference between trends and cultural shifts. I have a friend who suggests the shifts we are seeing build on some “turns” that he benchmarks at every 20 years beginning in about 1920. The coalescing of these “turns” plunged us into a period, the current one, about which Alan Roxburgh describes as “discontinuous change.” The “turns” are much more than trends/fads. Some fads and trends do not have significant connection with the cultural undertow. Certainly we can get bogged down in minutiae but our attempts at contextualization will fall woefully and embarrassingly short if we simply consider change a part of life and make adjustments out of reaction rather than intention.

By: Bart

Bart — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:33:09 +0000

People matter to God. How we reach them will involve believers understanding the culture around us. Where I work the culture is different than at church. My Life Changing Bible Study has it’s own unique culture. Southern Baptists train called believers who serve to reach different ethnic groups the culture they will be trying to reach. Bottom line is the message doesn’t change, our calling hasn’t changed, but how we build relationships is affected by the culture we live, work, play, and serve in.

Bart