Comments on: Time for the institution to die http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/ Let these stones be a witness to what we have done here this day. Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:54:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: art rogers http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-14097 art rogers Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:11:45 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-14097 Dad, I was wondering how long it would take for you to read that and say something. :) As for the USPS, like the "traditional church" and the various religious institutions, adaptation will help them flourish, failure to do so will cause them to diminish.... but not necessarily die. When so many want you to live - expect you to live - then you will live. What type of life it is will yet be determined. Oh, and College & Seminary were both funded very much through the direct mailing business. College and the first bit of Seminary through the company you built, and the rest of Seminary through me working at UPS, shoveling great mounds of the stuff from place to place. :) Dad,

I was wondering how long it would take for you to read that and say something. :)

As for the USPS, like the “traditional church” and the various religious institutions, adaptation will help them flourish, failure to do so will cause them to diminish…. but not necessarily die. When so many want you to live – expect you to live – then you will live. What type of life it is will yet be determined.

Oh, and College & Seminary were both funded very much through the direct mailing business. College and the first bit of Seminary through the company you built, and the rest of Seminary through me working at UPS, shoveling great mounds of the stuff from place to place. :)

]]> By: Papa R http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-14083 Papa R Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:24:29 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-14083 Art, I know that you are talking about much more than the Post Office but while the federal employees at USPS don't exactly play fair; direct mail advertising is not properly called "junk mail." I shouldn't have to remind you of the source of funds for your college and seminary education. At least most of it. I do agree that the USPS is an outdated, self serving group of bureaucrats whose goal is to preserve their own jobs. Don't be too quick to count the post office out. The strength of this institution backed by a liberal congress shouldn't be underestimated. They may change, but the "ain't goin' anywhere." Dad Art, I know that you are talking about much more than the Post Office but while the federal employees at USPS don’t exactly play fair; direct mail advertising is not properly called “junk mail.” I shouldn’t have to remind you of the source of funds for your college and seminary education. At least most of it.
I do agree that the USPS is an outdated, self serving group of bureaucrats whose goal is to preserve their own jobs. Don’t be too quick to count the post office out. The strength of this institution backed by a liberal congress shouldn’t be underestimated. They may change, but the “ain’t goin’ anywhere.”

Dad

]]> By: art rogers http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-14003 art rogers Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:45:41 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-14003 How about, perhaps as a subset of point three, the idea that the institution's internal operators insist that it is viable and necessary because if it were to adapt, a great many people would lose their jobs? Not that I take the loss of jobs lightly. Nevertheless, the institution that exists for the jobs of its members has become simply something that exists as an end unto itself. The perpetuation of the institution can not be the goal of the institution or it will never be healthy and cannot live. Any organization will be healthy and vital who understands its real mission and adapts itself to the success of that mission, relieving itself of those things that do not accomplish its mission. How about, perhaps as a subset of point three, the idea that the institution’s internal operators insist that it is viable and necessary because if it were to adapt, a great many people would lose their jobs?

Not that I take the loss of jobs lightly.

Nevertheless, the institution that exists for the jobs of its members has become simply something that exists as an end unto itself. The perpetuation of the institution can not be the goal of the institution or it will never be healthy and cannot live.

Any organization will be healthy and vital who understands its real mission and adapts itself to the success of that mission, relieving itself of those things that do not accomplish its mission.

]]> By: Joe Ball http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-13997 Joe Ball Tue, 08 Apr 2008 01:24:30 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-13997 Art I know you are talking about the Post Office, but it is scary the parallels I see. Art

I know you are talking about the Post Office, but it is scary the parallels I see.

]]> By: Paul http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-13972 Paul Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:11:37 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-13972 Reminds me of someone I read recently who said that if the rail road companies had really been in the transportation business they would own all of the airlines today. Instead they were only about rail roads, not transportation. Reminds me of someone I read recently who said that if the rail road companies had really been in the transportation business they would own all of the airlines today. Instead they were only about rail roads, not transportation.

]]> By: art rogers http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-13966 art rogers Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:19:59 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-13966 Oh, and great observations, Bart. Oh, and great observations, Bart.

]]> By: art rogers http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-13965 art rogers Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:19:12 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-13965 Note that I added a thought to the post. In fact, I am talking about the Post Office, but it is clearly such a parallel. It could easily be applied to certain churches as well as certain institutions. Really, the churches that are susceptible to this charge are the ones who have become most like institutions. The common symptom (is that the right word?) that all institutions share - the one that opens them to this observation - is that they are slow to change and loath to adapt. Those that do thrive. Those that don't, don't. Note that I added a thought to the post.

In fact, I am talking about the Post Office, but it is clearly such a parallel. It could easily be applied to certain churches as well as certain institutions. Really, the churches that are susceptible to this charge are the ones who have become most like institutions.

The common symptom (is that the right word?) that all institutions share – the one that opens them to this observation – is that they are slow to change and loath to adapt. Those that do thrive. Those that don’t, don’t.

]]> By: David Phillips http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-13961 David Phillips Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:04:06 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-13961 Bart, I don't know that he's talking about the church, but I do know of an institution or two he could be talking about... Bart,

I don’t know that he’s talking about the church, but I do know of an institution or two he could be talking about…

]]> By: Bart Rhea http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2008/04/07/time-for-the-institution-to-die/#comment-13955 Bart Rhea Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:35:30 +0000 http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/?p=648#comment-13955 Wow. Talk about disconnected. Were you talking about the Church? And...add "Do not visit" to the "Do not mail and Do not call". Or how about "Do not leave a flyer on my doornob", it will go in the trash and add to a mindset that is placing Christians in a bad light already. Good stuff! Wow. Talk about disconnected. Were you talking about the Church?

And…add “Do not visit” to the “Do not mail and Do not call”. Or how about “Do not leave a flyer on my doornob”, it will go in the trash and add to a mindset that is placing Christians in a bad light already.

Good stuff!

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