Visible lostness
Jul 3rd, 2007 | By art rogers | Category: Church, General Christian, MissionalI told you last week about my meal at Which Wich, in the post, Here’s My Order… While at the table, I looked over at a wall I found to be covered with the paper sacks on which you write your order. Folks at the restaurant had decorated the bags with the signature red markers and hung them with the clips they use to slide the bags down the line while they make the sandwich. The wall was covered with wires and decorated bags.
On the top was this:
Turned sideways and moved to the top in the middle of the wall in order to dominate all other messages, these two bags were hung.
The false gospel of tolerance in opposition to faith.
I should say, now, that I don’t think much of religion, either. Jesus, called the Pharisees, “white washed tombs” because they were all about religion and not about a living God and the ability to have a relationship with Him.
That’s not what this is. This statement is a broadbrush of all faith and is a strawman.
It’s not the strawman that I am blogging about, though. This person is lost and is not capable of seeing things through my eyes. I am not writing to condemn the lostness in her. I am writing to tell you that when I read this, I was hurt for her.
I recognize that she is hurt and hurting. It makes me hurt. But that wasn’t my first reaction. My first reaction was to pull those bags down in a righteous indignation. Then the Holy Spirit started to work on me. Changing my thoughts.
So here’s my point: Why is it we don’t hurt for the lost? Here in America, we are at war with the lost. We see them as enemies to be conquered with our culture as the battleground.
Didn’t you? When you read that, didn’t you feel defensive? Didn’t you wonder if I took them down? I mean, we can’t let that competing message stay up, can we?
Truth is, the lost aren’t the enemy. The Enemy’s the enemy and the lost are the battleground.
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Here in America, we are at war with the lost. We see them as enemies to be conquered with our culture as the battleground.
This statement is so true.
Thank you for this excellent post. My in-laws are atheist in the UK. They hate the established church. They can’t understand why anyone would be interested in a bunch of men who control and manipulate people with fear. This is all the church is to them. They think what my wife and I do is great. They love us and support us to minister to suffering people. We need to do what Jesus did. We need to distance ourselves from the controlling fear-mongerers and proclaim the Gospel of Christ. When we do we will find that the people who write messages on walls like that wont be talking about us like this- they will be turning to us for real answers.
Baptist bloggers need to look around the Secular Web and put their blogging into perspective. This is why we @ Triablogue are taking on atheism and other false gospels. This is why we need to talk about regenerate church membership. I’d personally like some of our Baptist bloggers to engage the Secular Web folks, if only to get a feeling for what the real lost world is like.
Just remember, the person who left that may have been one of the SBC’s apostate young people…you know, baptized at an early age, raised in the youth group, then apostatized in college…
It’s like the young man I read online about a year ago now…He says that if he found out God really existed he’d commit suicide to go ahead and go to hell.
These folks live a nullifidian world of self-contraction and illogic. Word peace – promote tolerance, stop religion. See the contradiction? This is the mind of the unregenerate soul.
Gene: I have worked ate and slept with lost people, some are my closest friends. I do not have to go to secular blogs to see how the world thinks. I live in it daily and have for many, many years. Do that and you also get a sense of the lost who are disillusioned with religion and yes Southern Baptists too. Some are angry, some are hurt and many have been through things that most of us would not live through and be sane enough to talk about it. Besides, my question would be, how does one expect those without Christ to act? We need to go out and tell them about the gospel, not look at them as the enemy. You are reformed in doctrine, surely you should see this. Of course the above that you have written is their agenda. Who does the Bible say their father is? Their father is who our enemy is.
>>I have worked ate and slept with lost people, some are my closest friends. I do not have to go to secular blogs to see how the world thinks. I live in it daily and have for many, many years. Do that and you also get a sense of the lost who are disillusioned with religion and yes Southern Baptists too. Some are angry, some are hurt and many have been through things that most of us would not live through and be sane enough to talk about it>Besides, my question would be, how does one expect those without Christ to act? We need to go out and tell them about the gospel, not look at them as the enemy. You are reformed in doctrine, surely you should see this.
Yes, Debbie, but you’re the exception in my experience. You are part of a church with a pastor that has soundly taught you.
On the other hand, my church is in a county with TWO associations of Southern Baptists. My church is out there on Saturdays every other weekend at 8am witnessing, not yelling, demonstrating, etc. – witnessing. One of our elders has been physically assaulted for it. Not a single SBC church has sent a member, a pastor, or any other representative to help us. Nothing – not even a note of support.
And is it too much to ask some of the folks on the Baptist blogs with M.Div’s and greater to help do some internet apologetics. Let them get a taste of nullifidianism. That might wake up some of them to the real world around them. That might be a good place for some of them to beat down their swords used on each other, and, frankly, it would be helpful for folks like me who’ve been doing internet apologetics for upwards of ten years now.
I also think that the average SBC member is pretty insulated. I speak from experience. They are in their “Christian (insert name here) group” on Saturdays and during the week. They go to their Christian coffeehouses. They hang out with their Christian friends. They are used to largely shallow teaching, and don’t know how to deal with some of what’s out there.
The average internet nullifidian is often an apostate too. Do they come from churches where theology was strong? No. Look through some of their “deconversion” stories, and you’ll see where they come from – shallow easy believism environments. Some of the fundamentalism in the SBC and IFBx churches has bred the apostates on the internet. It doesn’t take liberalism alone to do that.
And I never said they should be treated like the enemy, but, since you mentioned it, Scripture differentiates between unbelievers, and so should we. We shouldn’t emphasize the treatment of one type of unbeliever at the expense of the others. Scriptures like those in 1 Peter are dealing with pagan Gentiles never exposed to the gospel. When it comes to cultivated apostasy, the Bible is very harsh indeed by both instruction and example.
With regard to apostates, you know, in the OT, they’d be stoned to death, and we would have to deal with them. In the NT, we’re told to mark them, watch them, refute them, and put them out of the church. We also have examples from the Apostles to Christ using strong language and mocking apostates from the covenant.
Apostates are to be treated this way:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/11/i-peter-and-civility.html
and we may add to that the genre of the taunt song:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/06/dancing-on-his-grave.html
The apostate is certainly entitled to be treated as an object of evangelism like any other unbeliever and with respect…but only to a point. If he goes out of his way to attack the church, to tear it down, as it were, and burn it to the ground with you inside, he merits a different approach.
That’s true in the real world, and it’s true on the internet. There are some out there running around as pastys for Dawkins and Coyne and otthers, who go out of their way to badmouth that folksy Bible stuff they wuz taught as a child. They’ll never criticize an internet atheist, but they’ll show up on a Christian blog or at CARM in the forums there to take the side of the atheist while trying to maintain some pretense of their former religion. These folks are to be treated different. That can happen in the real world too. Not every unbeliever is the same or in the same category, and, at some point one DOES have license to to treat them as an enemy.
I’m a little slow and late to the party, sorry about that (story of my life, being the youngest and all…) I read this post at work but for some reason the picture was blocked –I do work for what one friend calls “the evil empire” which blocks pretty much everything the internet has to offer. I didn’t read the comments and tried to reserve judgment on the picture till I saw it. I popped in here earlier tonight—and then got sidetracked by schoolwork, so I’m just now getting back to it.
In all honesty, the messages didn’t anger or upset me. Perhaps that’s because they are so commonplace to me. It’s not like they are the exception; everyone I know who isn’t a follower of Christ pretty much feels that way, even those who claim affiliation with another “religion.” Most people I know, if asked, will assail you with details on how most (if not all) the world’s biggest atrocities/wars came about because of religious fervor/fanaticism. So I rather expect the kind of response see above.
In fact, if it had been something more decidedly “Christian” I think I would have barfed. I know that sounds odd, but coming from California, where its not at all culturally cool/hip/traditional to go to church, all the “Christian-y” things I’ve seen here in the South (where it is all of the above) feel so disingenuous it turns my stomach. I just want to shout, “Don’t make signs and bumper stickers about it. And for God’s sake don’t preach. LIVE IT! If you LIVE IT you won’t need to advertise it or shove it in people’s faces. It will be obvious.”
The sentiment in the sign above did, however, make me very sad. But I guess I’m used to that feeling too. One of my best friends has the same sentiment; this woman has been Jesus to me more than almost any other friend I have and yet she is so far away from committing her life to Him. It breaks my heart and drives me to tears all the time. I love this woman so much! I know so many others that have captured my heart as well that think the same way. They hear the word “Christian” (or denominations like “Southern Baptist”) and immediately associate it with so many bad memories, so they quit listening and shut down that kind of conversation. I have had to earn the right to speak spiritual truth into their lives and be heard. Even then they don’t really listen, their respect, esteem and love for me notwithstanding. Their hearts are hardened. It breaks my heart!