A fist fight between what parties?

cb

Art,
I guess I’m already tired of fighting to change the system. I also have no delusions about building a missions organization like the IMB. Get your passport and head to Viet Nam. I’m headed back to Uganda this fall, probably, and Mexico at Christmas, and Costa Rica next spring. But, in all those efforts, someone laid down the groundwork, and most of the somebodies were SBC missionaries (IMB or otherwise) The IMB missionaries I know will do missions no matter what the IMB says. If they IMB puts them out, they will keep doing missions because God will make a way. I, too, hate the narrowing of parameters of cooperation among conservative Baptists. I will always be a SB at heart, but they have already defined me ineligible to be an IMB missionary. That sticks in my craw, but I’ll be fried if I’ll let that keep me from doing missions. We continue to give to the CP and all mission causes, but we also give to mission causes that have been defunded or never funded by the IMB. I don’t want to be anything denominationally but a SB, but the SBC didn’t die for me, and if it does die it won’t save me. Howevr, if it continues to become more and more of a good-old-boy network and less and less concerned with supporting the work of its members, it will die. And, its death will be a good thing. Anything that makes it harder for people to get into heaven is pharasaical and needs to die, and its death will set others free. I just know this. I’m not going to spend another 10 years getting worked up over the SBC. Well, that may be a lie. I do plan on going to San Antonio to see if anything can be done. I’m just going to spend the rest of my life trying to make sure I carry out the calling God has given me, and equipping the people in my church to do what God has called them to do. Most of them don’t give a hoot whether it’s SBC or not. They just want to serve God. I may still get worked up over the power-plays, and I will still speak and write what I believe to be the truth, but I just am not going to have a heart attack over Paige Patterson or SWBTS or any other SBC entity. It my grieve me, and I may choose to do something about it, but I am not going down that road any more. There are too many lost people within the reach of my church to spend all my emotional energy getting worked up about people in large offices in Fort Worth, or Nashville, or Richmond. Maybe others need to get worked up. I’ve just been to too many preacher meetings with guys griping who aren’t going. The Great Commission cannot be fulfilled by griping, only by going.

I make no apologies for talking about the whole of the SBC. If you really think I am just griping, then go back and find my last SBC related post. How long has it been since then?

SWBTS is personal to me. It is also at the heart of so many things going on in the SBC.

All of the areas you mentioned are connected to one subject: “The narrowing of parameters of cooperation” among Southern Baptists – inerrantist conservatives that can’t seem to work together to reach the world.

I am not griping. I assure you that I am beyond that. We will either get to the place where we are reaching the world together or we are going to separate and reach it apart. I wonder how effective we will be?

I know this: I am going to be as effective as I can be. If the SBC is unable to provide me with an effective way to reach the world, then I will try something else. I really would like the SBC to live up to its potential. It is a missions engine the likes of which I could never build – or even come close. But I can build a better one than the SBC if it continues to throw rods, break pistons and generally get the function of its timing as out of whack as can be.

As for me, I have been preaching that our church must go through every door that God opens for us and take the Gospel. I mentioned a potential offer t go to Viet Nam the other night and have been inundated by members and visitors about the possibility. I’m getting my passport.

The SBC can get it together or fight. I am tired of wasting time.

I am sorry. I did not mean to be speaking in code.

cb

One of the tactics you have always used is speaking in code. Now, if I can just figure out that code.

:>)

Blessings,
Tim

The testimony you have given says certain things. You are reaching people. You are keeping some of the people you reach. Your leadership is seeing your vision for evangelism, discipleship, missions, and ministry. It may be time for you to do one of two things as a church. Go to two services or build. In your case, I would suggest going to two services. I would also suggest you develop your Sunday School to have maximum effect for outreach and community saturation. Take Bible study to “the street”, so to speak. When you get to a consistent worship attendance of 80% in one service and 65-70% in the other, begin to seek the face of God about building, starting a third worship service or planting a new church. In my not so humble opinion, the planting of a new church might be the most effective thing you can do for the growth of the Kingdom of God. Frankly, I would rather talk to you all day about such an exciting thing as effective church growth and church planting, but to the matter at hand.

SWBTS is not a church. The principles of growth are not the same. SWBTS can never become a vicarious Megachurch with Dr. Patterson as its pastor. SWBTS is a seminary. Dr. Patterson is a great educator, a fair-to-middling administrator (at best) and a master evangelist. He is not, never has been, nor could he be a Megachurch pastor in reality or vicariously. I truly hate to be saying this, but it needs to be said and the problem needs to be identified. If I were a trustee of SWBTS, I would stand and say this in the plenary session come Hell or high water. I would just have to let the Devil take the hindmost parts with the consequences of what happened to me after that. I have been down this road before and I would do the same again.

One last thing I must say. It is the “boot-strapping-baloney-eater” TRUSTEES of SWBTS that are to blame for the “woes” of SWBTS. Dr. Patterson was, is and always will be a gifted visionary. God has greatly used him. There was a time when he had men of steel backbones around him to keep his visionary gifts from running wild. (I am in no way talking about me being in that group.) He has (for the last few years at SEBTS and the entire time at SWBTS) now surrounded himself with sissy boys that are lap-dogs and yes-men. Men like Dr. Patterson never do well with such as I have described giving him “counsel” I pray for real men and women of steel to be elected to the board fo SWBTS. They could save THEIR seminary and bring back the greatness to MY President.

Now, Cyle, gripe about my griping.

cb

Until you come around and agree with me I am taking one of my “Blessings” back. :>) Of course if you do not give it back to me, let Brother Ben have it–Bless His Heart.:>)

Blessings,
Tim

My point is not whether or not I or anyone else believes there is a need for a chapel. My point is a principle of church growth. If everyone that is a member of your church shows up this Sunday will you be able to seat them all? Our sanctuary will seat 200. 250 with the choir. We usually average 175 and people are complaining that they do not have a place to sit. You know the 80% principle of church growth. During our Homecoming last September we had 233 present. We were packed to the gills. Many of our Deacons are now talking about the need for a new sanctuary. Some are saying we have adequate space. We have this “back-and-forth” within our own church walls. Now I see the same debate on the blogs.

While there are, according to the 2006 Book of Reports, 1991 students enrolled at SWBTS that does not count the Profs. I believe it would be safe to say SWBTS has 100 Profs. The current chapel seats 2000 (?) With just the students and the Profs you are over capacity. Knowing Dr. P, and I believe you know someone that was caught when he made Dorm checks during chapel one day, he closes down the campus for chapel and all students and Profs are to attend. Then you have graduation twice a year. I certainly can see a need for a chapel with adequate seating. You know what it was like at SEBTS when chapel time came. You also remember what it was like at graduation time. I know I remember what it was like at graduation and being limited to 7 guests. I was just grateful that I graduated in a December graduation because I understand the May graduates were only allowed 4 guests.

Brother CB, you remember that Dr. Patterson closed off the two rooms above Binkley as an International Prayer Room and a North American Prayer Room. He viewed those two rooms as a prayer tower so-to-speak. While you know the man better than I, I just do not think his vision is as far removed from reality as some are trying to make it.

Blessings,
Tim

Blessings,
Tim

I guess the enrollment is shrinking because the other graduate schools are getting better and there are more options than 25 years ago?

As for the chapel, I guess the real question is who is it going to be named after? I’ve never been on a college of any type where ALL the buildings aren’t named for somebody or other. I can’t see the trustees naming it the Dilday or Hemphill chapel. I guess if Jerry Jones or somebody came in it would be Cowboy chapel, but otherwise I wonder who gets their name plastered across it?

Then we have the whole chapel mess – not building the new one, but the exisiting. Over the past several years chapel attendance has become required (until the end of the year when the students have saved thier cuts – chapel is then a ghost town), has been lengthened, the music has stepped back to the 50s. this creates problems for students who are taking a class or two and need to meet with a proff – half the morning is gone with chapel.

An interesting look would be at the enrollment in the school of theology and the school of educational ministries – I have heard that the enrollment in the EM school has taken much less of a hit, percentage wise, than the theology school. with the psych and counselling doing the best – From what I have heard the President is not a fan of the type of couselling taught at his school, but if he gets rid of it, he wont be left with much of a school.

SWBTS already has one albatross on campus – the Leadership Development Center, now they want to add another. dont think the lease at Travis approached 6 mill for the once or twice a year that it is used. It is not just building the new chapel – there is also maintenance and upkeep, airconditioning/cleaning. Can SWBTS afford to keep it once they build it?

In my opinon, the administration has forgotten who they serve. they seem to think they serve themselves, not the students and the churches that send those students to them. I think this is why Truett, Logsden, BH Carroll etc are growing, and why historic Baptist colleges are recommending thier students look at those schools as opposed to SWBTS