SWBTS Trustee Roundup
Apr 3rd, 2007 | By art rogers | Category: SBCJust a few highlights from this week’s Trustee meeting at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.
First off, enrollment numbers are down. This is overall enrollment of all students, including the College at Southwestern. This does not bode well, as the fallout of the Klouda controversy has yet to be felt. I do not have the exact numbers – I’ll let you know when I do.
FTE numbers are not yet ready. Frankly, this is pretty late in the year to not have FTE numbers. Recall that last year the FTE numbers at SWBTS dropped below 2,000 for the first time since 70′s when they started tracking these numbers.
The Chapel plans are still underway. Fundraising for the project has now turned to selling seats. The articles are not yet online, but the chapel article in my magazine copy of Southwestern News mentioned that you could buy single chairs downstairs for $2,400 at either $200/mo for a year or $100/mo for two years. Rows in the balcony can be purchased for $1,200 at $100/mo for a year or $50/mo for two years. In return, you can place a brass plaque on the chair(s).
A confidentiality policy was passed. This will certainly delineate the bounds of what is and is not acceptable concerning the release of information. Dwight McKissic told me last month that he had been asking for this and I am confident that the rest of the BOT will be happy it is now in place as well. Things seem to have gone well with McKissic and the rest of the Board, which is a relief to many, I know. It certainly is for me.
A deficit budget was adopted.
Missions was the focus of the Southwestern News this issue. SWBTS students continue to cross the world, taking the gospel to places where it is needed. Of all the things that SWBTS is doing, this makes me most excited. I know that mission experiences have shaped me and those to whom I have ministered over the years.
Overall, SWBTS’ future is yet to be seen. Prayer is needed.
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Art,
At the trustee meeting, was there any discussion for the justification of building such a large chapel with a decreasing enrollment? The chapel video mentions the “6000 students that will attend SWBTS.” Where did that number come from? If I tried to build a 1000 seat sanctuary for my church that averages 300 in worship, it would be a hard sell to my congregation. They would demand justification, and if the current year was a 35 year low, I don’t think I would be getting approval. Are the trustees not disturbed by “selling seats” in a chapel?
It seems that the trustees are not doing their job of watching over the institution and keeping it from making these kinds of huge mistakes. And, they are not addressing the elephant in the living room: why does enrollment continue to decline?????
Todd Pylant
Todd:
You haven’t figured out why the school is suffering loss of students, loss of revenue, and loss of morale? You think the trustee officers are not working their hardest to remedy the situation?
Clearly you haven’t been reading the papers.
Dwight McKissic is the reason the school is suffering. Trustees are trying to deal with the terrible shame he has brought on the school. Students by the bushel are leaving because of him. Donors have stopped giving because of him. Chapel seats can’t be sold because people are afraid of purchasing a seat for a student who might be exposed to teaching that is “dangerous to the churches” regarding “tongues.” Dwight’s letters and comments to the media don’t pass muster with the administration, so clearly he is opposing the eternal decrees of Almighty God. How can a seminary thrive when one of its governing board has taken up the mantle of apostasy from the conservative resurgence.
He’s the poison in the pot and the thorn in the side. He’s the fly in the ointment and the leaven in the lump. How can you expect the school to flourish under such circumstances?
Van McClain has done everything he could to stop this irrascible servant short of making Dwight change his name to Toby.
Why else would enrollment be in decline?
Oh yes, I forget. Russell Dilday and Ken Hemphill. And maybe Sheri Klouda. The ship needed righting, of course we didn’t expect to lose all the passengers and cargo in the process.
But won’t it be a pretty ship when it’s turned?
BSC
While I appreciate the humorous response, I still find it hard that out of a group of more than 30 trustees, no one is asking the obvious questions. While some might think Dwight is to blame, the decline started long before Dwight became a trustee. Do they see the decline as purging the wicked from their midst, as a sign that they are purifying the seminary and burning off the dross? Do they were the decline as a badge of honor? Or, do they justify the decline by admitting that seminary education has more competition now than ever before, with more Texas options within 100 miles than ever before?
Regardless, there is almost no way, in my mind, to justify the new chapel.
I agree that SWBTS enrollment drops may be due to the political restructuring and recent controversies, but I wonder how much of it is related to it being in the heart of Texas given what’s happened with the BGCT and the SBofTexas. Does anyone know how many SWBTS students are Texans? I know that the liberal side of Baptist life in Texas has established its own seminary system with Truett at Baylor and Logsdon at my alma mater, Hardin-Simmons. Together they report about 400 FTE’s. By the way, I don’t want my kids to go to HSU today and I certainly don’t want them getting a theological education there. I’m not trying to defend SWBTS’s numbers or the recent actions of administration, but I wonder if there aren’t other factors involved. However, I think it’s insane to build a 6,000 seat chapel. I do wonder, though, what enrollment in other conservative evangelical seminaries is doing. I know people who choose SBTS and others for their reformed emphasis. I’ve considered Phoenix Seminary just because Wayne Grudem teaches there.
Maybe they are working off the “if you build it, they will come” principle. After all, who wants to attend a seminary without a top-of-the-line chapel, right?
Todd,
Do you know the difference between sarcasm and dry wit? Whether or not you agree with what is being said. Take Ben’s response for which ever suits.
As for the chapel, to my knowledge, the wisdom of building the chapel has not ever been questioned by the Trustees – at least not openly. I don’t know where the idea that 6,000 students were heading to SWBTS originated. Suffice it to say that since FTE (Full Time Enrollment – Master’s level hours) have been declining and they can no longer be buoyed by the College at Southwestern as we are now in an overall decline, whatever was used to project 6,000 students is no longer valid. At the very least, the rationale should be revisited.
Dorcas,
Funny.
Todd & Cyle,
The decline is not due to recent controversies. The decisions of the students currently enrolled and now being reported (or not reported in the case of the FTE’s) were made before the controversies began. One could argue that there may have been some fallout over the winter break from the decisions made and words spoken after Dwight McKissic’s chapel sermon. Still, it would have been much more difficult to transfer in the middle of the school year and very unlikely. If you were just starting school, then finishing the year and making a move over summer would make more sense. If you were at the end of your degree plan, then trying to transfer would definately not have made sense. Better to put your head down and get done. That’s my perception, anyway.
I think that the effects of this year’s controversies have not even begun to be seen, yet. The numbers next year will begin to reflect them.
So why the decline? Well, back in the heyday of SWBTS, it was the most conservative school of the Big 6. Guys (and girls) came from all over the US to attend. I was raised in Houston, so it was only natural that I go to SWBTS. Of course, almost every minister I knew, including some family, went there. I never considered anything else.
After the others began to right themselves, theologically, SWBTS was still the largest with the most to offer in campus facilities, degree programs and staff. When Dr. Dilday was fired and the school put on probation, those newly conservative schools in folks’ own back yard looked a whole lot better to them.
Also, Dr. Dilday’s firing spawned an enormous development for theological education all over Texas. It used to be that every minister in the state of Texas was an alumnus and sent their “preacher boys” to SWBTS with a pat on the back and some support from home. Now, many alums, unhappy with all that has happened, discourage their ministerial hopefuls from even considering SWBTS. I know several in Kentucky, where I served for most of 10 years, who are bitter about what happened at Southern. That just happens.
I am afraid that it will take years to turn SWBTS from its current situation. It will take more than doing the same things we have been doing.
Also, although I agree with some that racism permeates our culture and nothing is “sterile” in terms of racial motivations, I am convinced that Dwight’s issue is not an issue of race.
In fact, I think that if I were in his place, the vigor with which I was addressed would have been infinitely more aggressive.
This is in response, of course, to Ben’s comment.
Dear Brother Art,
I was alarmed at reading “deficit budget.” From where is the money coming to spend in excess of income?
Love in Christ,
Jeff
JRY:
Deficit spending comes from reserve accounts, both temporarily and permanently restricted. You may want to read this financial report from Patterson’s days at Southeastern.
BSC
Brother Todd,
Ben was not joking. He really believes that stuff.
Brother Art,
You have spoken directly to, what I believe to be, the real issue. While many may not agree with Dr. P and his theological bend, we must face the fact that each of our seminaries are competing for the same students. Let’s face it, Truett, Campbell Divinity, Gardner-Webb Divinity, and to some extent the Divinity School at Samford, are where most of those who left SBC life and consider themselves conservative, but not in agreement with the SBC, are sending their students. These schools are the ones that have the majority of the Profs from SWBTS and SEBTS. Therefore, that leaves 6 Seminaries that have no problem affirming the inerrancy of the Scripture scrambling for students to fill their FTE status for CP $.
Here is my take on it. (Not that it matters much. According to CB I may be wrong, but I have no doubt.) :>) SWBTS is in transition. She is redefining herself. Notice how each seminary is defined. SWBTS was definitely known across the convention as the preachers seminary. If you wanted someone that could preach, get a person with a degree from SWBTS. However, in the past each seminary has focused on Expositional preaching and therefore, you can now get a good preacher from any seminary.
Let’s look at the numbers. The three-year rolling average has declined. What do we contribute that to? Many will point to Dr. Patterson. However, allow me to ask one question. How many faculty and alumni were as excited as the BoT that Dr. Patterson was coming back to Texas?
As I said, that is just my take on it.
Brother Ben,
Notice the date on that Memo and answer a question. Was there an audit performed by a reputable CPA firm after this memo? Of course the answer is Yes! Whenever there is an outside firm performing a financial audit, the results give a clean bill of financial health to the previous administration and assures the present administration everything is above board financially. Let me leave you with this question. While SEBTS came through this “deficit spending” financial time, was there any findings of misappropriation of funds?
Blessings,
Tim
Tim -
The question of what to do with one’s money, or an institution’s money for that matter, is a difficult one that goes far beyond the question of “wrongful spending.”
It is not wrong to build a house of worship for the Lord’s people to gather. However, I believe it is wrong to build one to an extravagant level not suited to the enrollment numbers or for that matter, any sense of real financial stewardship. Last I checked, God didn’t require a person to be physically fit enough to climb a 100-stair prayer tower to lift their petitions to him.
Dorcas
Sister Dorcas,
It appears that Dr. Patterson, just as he did to increase the square footage of the presidential living/hospitality quarters, is raising the funds to build this prayer tower and chapel. It is like taking up a love offering at church and people that do not give to it complain that a visiting evangelist received $2K for preaching Sunday AM & PM. If the funds are not coming from the CP funds being given to the seminary from the churches, why are people complaining?
Blessings,
Tim
Tim -
I would simply say that fundraising efforts should be directed to necessary items prior to luxuries. I would call this chapel on the extreme end of luxury considering the present state of the seminary and the present state of those lost and dying and needing to hear the gospel around the world.
My dislike of the prayer tower, in particular, has nothing to do with where the money came from, but the fact that it serves little functional purpose. People can pray anywhere, anytime. It does not have elevator access, so it is limited as a tourist draw that might bring people on campus. I shouldn’t wonder if they have hooked up with a cell phone provider to put a tower on campus and are looking for a way to disguise it. I wouldn’t mind that so much; at least that would be a consistent source of revenue.
I suppose the stairs would be helpful as a physical fitness regimen … but if we are really interested in building up the Lord’s temple … perhaps the money should go to a state-of-the-art gymnasium and fitness facility, and a seminary requirement that all pastors graduating meet the IMB’s BMI requirement for service. That would make the seminary stand out amongst the rest … sending out the healthiest preachers of any of them.
People aren’t going to ask where the money came from when they drive by the seminary and see a big fancy, and rather empty, building. Instead, they will think … Southern Baptists thought their money was best spent on THAT?
What kind of example are we to be to the world? That is my question for you.
Tim,
With all due respect this is a wonderful example of how some people will defend to the end any who had a prominent part in the cr no matter how wrongheaded the decision is.
If your personal finances were going in the red, you were having to draw on savings to keep the bills paid and one of your significant sources of income was on the decline, yet you decided to significantly expand your residence there would certainly be people who wondered about the wisdom of that. If your wife was a homemaker and one of those people who objected to the addition, and your response to her was that she didn’t need to worry about it since she wasn’t contributing money to it….well….you’d better be wearing a steel helmet when you tell her that.
Tim,
A couple of minor corrections.
1) The increase in the housing was to living quarters, not to entertainment space.
2) The chapel is being funded by donations and, as has been previously noted, by the selling of seats. That’s not a love offering.
The issue is the example. Dr. Patterson, on the chapel tour at the website, says that part of the function of this building is to teach the proper way of doing church – baptisms, layout (no center aisle). If this chapel is to functionally teach students how to do church correctly, then they are telling our new pastors to raise capital funds for the new sanctuary by selling pews and allowing the names of so many donors to go on God’s house. Sorry, but I have a particular issue with that. It is blasphemous, in my opinion, to put the name of a person on God’s house. That’s why my name is not on the sign outside, nor on the letterhead of our church. I digress.
The other objection to both the house and the chapel is opulence. It is unseemly to have so much money spent on something that is not needed. Luxurious. It rubs the wrong way in the ministry where so many do without to spread God’s word – both those who do the contributing and those who serve with little compensation.
If the money to which you refer was to join the money already given ministry and missions, rather than on unneeded structures or monuments, then the multiplication of ministry and missions would be enormous. The complaint, as I see it, is that we are neglecting the vital in favor of the luxuriously unnecessary.
I think all Christendom, and at least all Southern Baptists, have a stake in the overall spending of Kingdom money – especially when it has to do with our institutions. If it were an individual’s personal belongings or the buildings of autonomous churches, then our opinions – valid or invalid – would not have a place in the discussion unless we were asked. In this case, our opinions do matter. It’s our institution.
Of course, not everyone is of the same opinion. Clearly, the Trustees are not concerned with these things. At least, they are not publicly concerned. How they handle this privately, I do not know. That includes, by the way, the opinion of Dwight McKissic, whom I consider a personal friend.
Dorcas,
SWBTS was one of the first to have a state of the art physical fitness facility and was one of the main draws even after the resurgence but before Dr. Dilday was fired. It was this, in part, to which I was referring that held the momentum of the institution after the resurgence and the other seminaries began to get more conservative.
Instead, think what else might be with this money. I would like to see the school require and pay for every student to go on overseas mission as a part of their education. I think that is within the vision of the Seminary right now and would have far more lasting impact.
Art -
I agree with you. I was being somewhat facetious with the physical fitness example. My point was simply yours, that the chapel is a luxury and the money would be better placed elsewhere.
Sister Dorcas,
It was a prayer tower that delivered $1 Mil to a preacher just north of you. :>) I do not desire to debate what is the best use of money given I do trust people follow our Lord’s leading.
Allow me though, to address fund raising. You, being a Starbucks coffee drinker, decide that you will only spend your money on Starbucks coffee. I, being a person that receives my primary funding from people that drink coffee but are not necessarily ready to spend $2.50 on a cup of coffee even if it is a special blend, find out that you would spend $2.50 on a cup of coffee if it is Starbucks. I then tell you that if you can find others that would purchase your coffee from me, will place a Starbucks percolator in the middle of the store if the funding is there. You would never spend your money with me, but because I am on your way to the office it would appease your desire, you would anty up the money.
There are some people that already give to the CP program and desire to see SWBTS being the biggest and best. (You know how Texans are) As I see it, these are the ones that are giving to the funding of the prayer tower and chapel. If they want to give to it, let them. It benefits me in NC because one day Dr. Patterson will leave and the prayer tower and chapel will stay, and I still enjoy the assets of SWBTS. Because that is my seminary too.
Blessings,
Tim
The fact that the money is outside CP money does not remove the question. That money could still be raised and spent on something else. Why is it not raised by Patterson for another worthy goal, like missions, etc.?
I agree with the reservations about putting a name on a seat and teaching students the right way to do church. Also, in the latest issue of Southwestern News, the chapel will be used to teach students how to “lift an offering.” What a horrible model for students to follow, and one that most every church would reject.
Tim, I am not very bright. Can you answer your own question: were many of the faculty excited to hear that Patterson was coming back to Texas?
I’d like to make a suggestion and an observation. First the suggestion. Everyone who is unhappy with the direction of SWBTS needs to write its president, its Board, and the executive board of the SBC. Second, an observaton. There was a great deal more griping writing taking place when McKissic was in trouble than when he and SWBTS made peace. It just smells and sounds like a witch hunt, or at the very least just a gripe session. And hey, I think prayer towers and 6,000 seat chapel auditoriums are a waste of money, too. We’re Baptist and that certainly means we have a Robert’s Rules of Orders right to gripe, but words are cheap. Writing about it on the blogosphere is doing something, but it’s not doing much.
Cyle,
I am not sure I follow – who is the witch and who is doing the hunting?
My personal struggle with griping on blogs is well documented here. After that, I have intentionally tried to take the razor’s edge out of my mouth. For what it’s worth.
Tim,
It is my Seminary, too. In fact, mine more than yours as SEBTS is yours more than mine. Don’t take that the wrong way. I just mean that I love it more than you, probably, because of all that God did in my life there. Which is precisely why I don’t want the entire campus torn up for something that is not necessary and money spent there that could be spent elsewhere. Please don’t try to convince me that those donors couldn’t be convinced to send students on mission just as easily, if not more easily, by the same donors. The money is going to the Chapel because of the vision of leadership, not the vision of donors. I think that vision is not as productive as the missions vision – also a part of this leadership’s vision.
Cyle -
As for me, I’m not griping. I’m exhorting. May be a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless. :)
And I’m conserving my financial resources I figure, by saving postage. Everyone who has influence is reading the blogs in some fashion, be it directly or through printed or verbal reports, so I figure if I’m not expecting a personal reply anyway, this is the most cost effective way to make my point to the widest audience of people who can actually effect change in the system.
Tim -
Sorry, I got lost in your analogy, so not sure I understand you there.
However, are we at the point of agreeing to disagree? Let’s just say 20 years from now we can revisit the subject. Then, when we see the long term results of how the “chapel saga” plays out we’ll meet for coffee and one of us can say “I told you so”.
Brother Art, and others,
I will have to answer later because I am leaving for today. It will be after prayer service tonight before I answer you. I have to go climb 150 steps to get to the prayer tower. :>)
Blessings,
Tim
The issue is not that Dr. Patterson is not using CP funds and he is raising the money from independent donors. The issue is a question of leadership. There is no doubt that Dr. Patterson asserts considerable weight over the affections and pocket books of not a few prominent people. The fact that he would use his influence to build a 6,000 seat chapel without significant rationale is telling. I do not know much about Dr. Patterson, but Jesus said that where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. From observation, it appears that Dr. Patterson has placed unnecessary emphasis on a gigantic structure. He is using his influence to finance it. While not illegal, it definitely calls into question his heart and affections and his future ability to effectively lead the seminary into the trials and challenges of the 21st century. James said that we show our faith by what we do. Our actions say alot about what we believe. I am learning a great deal about what Dr. Patterson values through this move.
I remember something that Dr. Ken Hemphill said while I was at Southwestern. Funds had been raised to build a “waterfall-pond-prayer-garden-statue of Jesus” area. When questioned in a student forum, Dr. Hemphill said that it was much easier to raise money for buildings, etc. than it was to raise money for scholarships. In other words, it’s much harder to put a plaque on a student.
On another note…I think that I read in the Southwestern News that chapel would seat 3000. I have already filed my copy away and so I can’t go look to make sure. Did anyone else see that?
Brother Alan,
If you could raise $6 Mil to build a chapel and prayer tower, in order to get 20 million to endow chairs and put in a missions fund, would you build a chapel and prayer tower?
I am not saying this is what is happening. What I am saying is that we do not know the details and it very well could be that it takes something like this to get the missions $ further down the road.
Blessings,
Tim
Brother Todd,
I think Brother Art can answer that question better than I, even though I asked it rhetorically. I do believe if your poll the alum’s and Prof’s you will find they were not as excited to see Dr. Patterson come to SWBTS as SEBTS’s alum’s and Prof’s were to heartbroken to see him Wake Forest, NC.
Sister Dorcas,
As bad as I hate to say; “I am wrong”, I am even worse at saying “I told you so.” Coffee will be tasty in San Anton.
Blessings,
Tim
Brother Todd,
The last statement should read “were heartbroken” not “were to heartbroken”.
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
In my opinion which is never very humble, Alan Cross has made the most realistic and grace filled statement about the chapel. My next statement is not an opinion. The building of that chapel is not motivated by a missional desire. In saying this I truly wish I was lying and being mean, but history says I am not and in this case, sad as it may be, you know it. You and I have been around for a while and we both should be sad about this. If that chapel is actually built It will be a witness to a failed trustee board far more than about Dr. Patterson.
cb
What is wrong with the old chapel?
This chapel scenario sadly reminds me of another situation I’m very close to where a pastor tried to “lead” a local congregation out of a decade-plus long decline by building a lavish facility that they did not really need and could not afford.
Now he’s gone, the church has 8 million in debt, and attendance is stil going down, down, down.
No student is going to pick Southwestern because it has a new chapel building. It’s an idol. Period.
1. FTE = Full Time Equivalent (resulting from a mathematical formula involving total credit hours taken by students, etc.; not the exactly the same thing as “full time enrollment”);
2. Keep in mind: higher education is transitioning generally. In 1990, as I prepared to attend SWBTS, the options available to me were: (1) quit job, pack family, move to seminary in order to follow God’s will in vocational ministry; (2) don’t go. Today, with technology as it is and many more educational options available, it isn’t necessary to quit job, pack family, move to seminary–and I’m suggesting to friends recently called to vocational ministry not consider moving, particularly due to the distance education and non-traditional options available now–and because every community I know of needs several more new churches that are done right but, when folks move away to attend seminary, they seldom come home to apply that education to leading new churches.
3. Are there any liberal Baptists in Texas (someone posting above said so)? I live and serve here, and know lots of Texas Baptists–but no liberal ones.
4. The good old days are ahead of us if we’ll work together making wrong things right.
I guess I should clarify that I don’t mean “idol” in the Buddha statue or totem pole sense of idol. But in the St. Peters sense. At least they’re selling pews instead of indulgences.
-Perhaps the prayer tower can be used to ask The Almighty to send 4,000 FTE’s?
-Or maybe when chapel is not in session it can be used as a deer blind?
I’m also not sure about not having a center aisle, as I am pretty sure that all SWBTS seminarians will line up on the right.
. . . And, in 1996 when I started doctoral studies and research for projects, I remember that few seminaries had web addresses and even fewer had (or wanted, at the time) distance education programs/offerings of any sort. Times have changed–for the better, in my opinion (see the link to one of those changes: http://www.bhcti.org/ –a theology school in Texas whose satellite campus can be your church’s campus).
Brother CB,
I do hear your statement. Do I personally believe that a 3500 seat chapel is needed? I do not know. According to their last enrollment numbers, they enrolled 1900 students last year. Let’s say they graduate 300 students. Each student has families. We will just do the average. One student has 2 kids and a wife. That is three. That same student has a mother and father. That is 5. That same student’s spouse has a mother and father. That is 7. Multiply 7 X 300 and I believe you will come up with 2,100. This does not even take into account the people who are special and helped also in the life of the student.
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
What is your point here? Are you talking about having the chapel for graduations?
cb
Regarding graduation, many small institutions hold graduations off-site. When I graduated from SWBTS in 1995, the student body was around twice its current size. We held graduation at Travis Avenue without incident or hardship. Unfortuantely, if FTEs continue to decline, I fear that future SWBTS graduations will be held in its current chapel.
Art, I love the idea of sending students on an international missions project. It would have numerous benefits and could be embraced by the convention as a whole.
Back to my griping comment. Maybe I was just reacting to my own perspective. It just seems like we’ve moved from the IMB BOT policies, to the Wade Burleson controversy, to Miller Time, to McKissic, and since there’s nothing much going on we’ll tee off on SWBTS. Maybe SWBTS is just symptomatic of the whole SBC issue. Maybe it’s not. I was a professional counselor for 10 years and I’ve been a pastor for 13 years, and I don’t mind stepping into the middle of something I perceive is wrong. I also get irritated when people gripe about something and they won’t do anything about it: hence the question about writing and contacting the SBC and the BOT at SWBTS. I might add, “And go to the convention and do something.” The overall content of discussion about SWBTS and Patterson is negative. Look, even a bad dog finds a bird every now and then. I think we, as Christian bloggers, we should at least be fair. And where change needs to be made, blogging has its place. It is not, however, all-powerful. Readership is limited and reliability is often questionable. If you want to change SWBTS, you probably won’t get it done with a few keystrokes and a click on the “submit” button.
From my perspective, the problem that SWBTS has had since Craig Blaising has come on the scene is an atmosphere that is less than student friendly. Under Dilday, and to a less extent under Hemphill, when a student or faculty member arrived on the SWBTS campus they became part of the family, and were treated as family. Now we have a campus that is much less friendly to women – those in the MDiv program are encouraged to go into Mrs Pattersons classes. Students that desire to study student ministry are pushed to the MDiv program, the social work program was moved into the theology school. The number of vice presidents (mostly in the theology school) are driving company cars, there are more administrators than ever before in the theology school – even as enrollment has dropped.
Then we have the whole chapel mess – not building the new one, but the exisiting. Over the past several years chapel attendance has become required (until the end of the year when the students have saved thier cuts – chapel is then a ghost town), has been lengthened, the music has stepped back to the 50s. this creates problems for students who are taking a class or two and need to meet with a proff – half the morning is gone with chapel.
An interesting look would be at the enrollment in the school of theology and the school of educational ministries – I have heard that the enrollment in the EM school has taken much less of a hit, percentage wise, than the theology school. with the psych and counselling doing the best – From what I have heard the President is not a fan of the type of couselling taught at his school, but if he gets rid of it, he wont be left with much of a school.
SWBTS already has one albatross on campus – the Leadership Development Center, now they want to add another. dont think the lease at Travis approached 6 mill for the once or twice a year that it is used. It is not just building the new chapel – there is also maintenance and upkeep, airconditioning/cleaning. Can SWBTS afford to keep it once they build it?
In my opinon, the administration has forgotten who they serve. they seem to think they serve themselves, not the students and the churches that send those students to them. I think this is why Truett, Logsden, BH Carroll etc are growing, and why historic Baptist colleges are recommending thier students look at those schools as opposed to SWBTS
Just my .02 here.
I guess the enrollment is shrinking because the other graduate schools are getting better and there are more options than 25 years ago?
As for the chapel, I guess the real question is who is it going to be named after? I’ve never been on a college of any type where ALL the buildings aren’t named for somebody or other. I can’t see the trustees naming it the Dilday or Hemphill chapel. I guess if Jerry Jones or somebody came in it would be Cowboy chapel, but otherwise I wonder who gets their name plastered across it?
Brother CB,
My point is not whether or not I or anyone else believes there is a need for a chapel. My point is a principle of church growth. If everyone that is a member of your church shows up this Sunday will you be able to seat them all? Our sanctuary will seat 200. 250 with the choir. We usually average 175 and people are complaining that they do not have a place to sit. You know the 80% principle of church growth. During our Homecoming last September we had 233 present. We were packed to the gills. Many of our Deacons are now talking about the need for a new sanctuary. Some are saying we have adequate space. We have this “back-and-forth” within our own church walls. Now I see the same debate on the blogs.
While there are, according to the 2006 Book of Reports, 1991 students enrolled at SWBTS that does not count the Profs. I believe it would be safe to say SWBTS has 100 Profs. The current chapel seats 2000 (?) With just the students and the Profs you are over capacity. Knowing Dr. P, and I believe you know someone that was caught when he made Dorm checks during chapel one day, he closes down the campus for chapel and all students and Profs are to attend. Then you have graduation twice a year. I certainly can see a need for a chapel with adequate seating. You know what it was like at SEBTS when chapel time came. You also remember what it was like at graduation time. I know I remember what it was like at graduation and being limited to 7 guests. I was just grateful that I graduated in a December graduation because I understand the May graduates were only allowed 4 guests.
Brother CB, you remember that Dr. Patterson closed off the two rooms above Binkley as an International Prayer Room and a North American Prayer Room. He viewed those two rooms as a prayer tower so-to-speak. While you know the man better than I, I just do not think his vision is as far removed from reality as some are trying to make it.
Blessings,
Tim
Blessings,
Tim
Brother CB,
Until you come around and agree with me I am taking one of my “Blessings” back. :>) Of course if you do not give it back to me, let Brother Ben have it–Bless His Heart.:>)
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
The testimony you have given says certain things. You are reaching people. You are keeping some of the people you reach. Your leadership is seeing your vision for evangelism, discipleship, missions, and ministry. It may be time for you to do one of two things as a church. Go to two services or build. In your case, I would suggest going to two services. I would also suggest you develop your Sunday School to have maximum effect for outreach and community saturation. Take Bible study to “the street”, so to speak. When you get to a consistent worship attendance of 80% in one service and 65-70% in the other, begin to seek the face of God about building, starting a third worship service or planting a new church. In my not so humble opinion, the planting of a new church might be the most effective thing you can do for the growth of the Kingdom of God. Frankly, I would rather talk to you all day about such an exciting thing as effective church growth and church planting, but to the matter at hand.
SWBTS is not a church. The principles of growth are not the same. SWBTS can never become a vicarious Megachurch with Dr. Patterson as its pastor. SWBTS is a seminary. Dr. Patterson is a great educator, a fair-to-middling administrator (at best) and a master evangelist. He is not, never has been, nor could he be a Megachurch pastor in reality or vicariously. I truly hate to be saying this, but it needs to be said and the problem needs to be identified. If I were a trustee of SWBTS, I would stand and say this in the plenary session come Hell or high water. I would just have to let the Devil take the hindmost parts with the consequences of what happened to me after that. I have been down this road before and I would do the same again.
One last thing I must say. It is the “boot-strapping-baloney-eater” TRUSTEES of SWBTS that are to blame for the “woes” of SWBTS. Dr. Patterson was, is and always will be a gifted visionary. God has greatly used him. There was a time when he had men of steel backbones around him to keep his visionary gifts from running wild. (I am in no way talking about me being in that group.) He has (for the last few years at SEBTS and the entire time at SWBTS) now surrounded himself with sissy boys that are lap-dogs and yes-men. Men like Dr. Patterson never do well with such as I have described giving him “counsel” I pray for real men and women of steel to be elected to the board fo SWBTS. They could save THEIR seminary and bring back the greatness to MY President.
Now, Cyle, gripe about my griping.
cb
Brother CB,
One of the tactics you have always used is speaking in code. Now, if I can just figure out that code.
:>)
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
I am sorry. I did not mean to be speaking in code.
cb
Cyle,
I make no apologies for talking about the whole of the SBC. If you really think I am just griping, then go back and find my last SBC related post. How long has it been since then?
SWBTS is personal to me. It is also at the heart of so many things going on in the SBC.
All of the areas you mentioned are connected to one subject: “The narrowing of parameters of cooperation” among Southern Baptists – inerrantist conservatives that can’t seem to work together to reach the world.
I am not griping. I assure you that I am beyond that. We will either get to the place where we are reaching the world together or we are going to separate and reach it apart. I wonder how effective we will be?
I know this: I am going to be as effective as I can be. If the SBC is unable to provide me with an effective way to reach the world, then I will try something else. I really would like the SBC to live up to its potential. It is a missions engine the likes of which I could never build – or even come close. But I can build a better one than the SBC if it continues to throw rods, break pistons and generally get the function of its timing as out of whack as can be.
As for me, I have been preaching that our church must go through every door that God opens for us and take the Gospel. I mentioned a potential offer t go to Viet Nam the other night and have been inundated by members and visitors about the possibility. I’m getting my passport.
The SBC can get it together or fight. I am tired of wasting time.
CB,
That doesn’t sound like griping. Sounds like the prelude to a fist-fight to me.
Art,
I guess I’m already tired of fighting to change the system. I also have no delusions about building a missions organization like the IMB. Get your passport and head to Viet Nam. I’m headed back to Uganda this fall, probably, and Mexico at Christmas, and Costa Rica next spring. But, in all those efforts, someone laid down the groundwork, and most of the somebodies were SBC missionaries (IMB or otherwise) The IMB missionaries I know will do missions no matter what the IMB says. If they IMB puts them out, they will keep doing missions because God will make a way. I, too, hate the narrowing of parameters of cooperation among conservative Baptists. I will always be a SB at heart, but they have already defined me ineligible to be an IMB missionary. That sticks in my craw, but I’ll be fried if I’ll let that keep me from doing missions. We continue to give to the CP and all mission causes, but we also give to mission causes that have been defunded or never funded by the IMB. I don’t want to be anything denominationally but a SB, but the SBC didn’t die for me, and if it does die it won’t save me. Howevr, if it continues to become more and more of a good-old-boy network and less and less concerned with supporting the work of its members, it will die. And, its death will be a good thing. Anything that makes it harder for people to get into heaven is pharasaical and needs to die, and its death will set others free. I just know this. I’m not going to spend another 10 years getting worked up over the SBC. Well, that may be a lie. I do plan on going to San Antonio to see if anything can be done. I’m just going to spend the rest of my life trying to make sure I carry out the calling God has given me, and equipping the people in my church to do what God has called them to do. Most of them don’t give a hoot whether it’s SBC or not. They just want to serve God. I may still get worked up over the power-plays, and I will still speak and write what I believe to be the truth, but I just am not going to have a heart attack over Paige Patterson or SWBTS or any other SBC entity. It my grieve me, and I may choose to do something about it, but I am not going down that road any more. There are too many lost people within the reach of my church to spend all my emotional energy getting worked up about people in large offices in Fort Worth, or Nashville, or Richmond. Maybe others need to get worked up. I’ve just been to too many preacher meetings with guys griping who aren’t going. The Great Commission cannot be fulfilled by griping, only by going.
Cyle,
A fist fight between what parties?
cb