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	<title>Comments on: The Organic Revolution Pt. 1</title>
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	<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/</link>
	<description>Let these stones be a witness to what we have done here this day.</description>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3988</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 04:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3988</guid>
		<description>Art,

Man, you read my blog more carefully than I do (lately, anyway). I&#039;ll have to go find the comment to see who we&#039;re talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art,</p>
<p>Man, you read my blog more carefully than I do (lately, anyway). I&#8217;ll have to go find the comment to see who we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3985</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3985</guid>
		<description>Art:

It is interesting to hear and read comments about people who are now pleading for individuals and churches to be &quot;missional&quot; as if that is a new revelation and a cause worthy of &quot;revolution&quot; in the SBC. Some seem to have claimed ownership of this idea by virtue of their age (&quot;young&quot; bloggers or &quot;young&quot; leaders of SBC renewal).

I assert that &quot;missional&quot; is not new nor is it the exclusive domain of the &quot;young.&quot; For a very long time, while the SBC was being jerked in the direction of parochialism, there were many &quot;old timers&quot; (I never intended to be this old this soon) who understood that the genius and heart of the Southern Baptist Convention was being sacrificed on the altar of conformity and power politics. Among those &quot;old timers&quot; were many who were just as marginalized as many others in their call for a mission and evangelistic refocus. For nearly an entire generation the landscape was scattered with broken hearts and broken ministry careers of those who believed a call from 
God meant a life given to pursuing the will of God in both local and national settings because emergent (uh oh, a dirty word) leaders in the SBC had another agenda. Slash and burn was the modus operandi as networks were contrived in every State Convention to eliminate the perceived enemies. Good and Godly people were pushed aside with the question, &quot;Do you fully agree with the Conservative Resurgence and those who lead it?&quot;

My observation has been that the vast majority of older (at least they are aging at this point) pastors and leaders tried to &quot;stay by the stuff&quot; that provided hope and obedience to God&#039;s direction...they worked hard at being &quot;missional&quot; where God had planted their lives and where they could make a difference in spite of what was happening on the broader SBC stage. Most of these men and women had little influence at the national level, so they simply lowered their heads, put their energies to the tasks where they could spend meaningful ministries, and prayed that somehow God would cause people to see what was happening to our beloved Convention.

What has changed? Let me remind everyone of those many occasions at SBC meetings when ordinary people would step to the mikes only to have them turned off or were called out of order. Letters or phone calls to agency leaders or trustees produced little effect related to concerns of average church members and leaders. Again, what has changed? The evolution (oh, my! I guess I&#039;ll never get a professorship at Southern Seminary) of technology (specifically the internet, blogs, etc) has opened a path to actually dialogue about important issues and concerns, and for accountability of SBC leadership to be called for from the grassroots. 

Now, anyone who wishes to participate in an open and sincere discussion about what seems to be important &quot;out in the churches&quot; or even in the larger organization has a venue that allows for their input. Yes, there are some who abuse the privilege, but it appears to me that their is a large amount of built in accountability by those who watch, read, care, and who have a sincere heart for God, His church, and the world in which He has placed us. A large part of the value of the blogging internet is not the createion of a &quot;herd mentality,&quot; but the value of allowing ordinary SBC Christians an opportunity to share &quot;their two cents worth.&quot; If their contribution is invalid or not helpful, it can be ignored or called to account. If their contribution is thoughtful and constructive, it can add to the dialogue...this was not possible before now in any meaningful way.

Art, stay with the stuff. Keep posting, prodding, and praying. Organizations and agencies can be changed though the larger they are and the more extensive they are, the longer it may take. There is a fresh breeze wafting across Southern Baptist life. You and I cannot make it happen, but we can participate in what the Spirit is up to.

Charles Clark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art:</p>
<p>It is interesting to hear and read comments about people who are now pleading for individuals and churches to be &#8220;missional&#8221; as if that is a new revelation and a cause worthy of &#8220;revolution&#8221; in the SBC. Some seem to have claimed ownership of this idea by virtue of their age (&#8220;young&#8221; bloggers or &#8220;young&#8221; leaders of SBC renewal).</p>
<p>I assert that &#8220;missional&#8221; is not new nor is it the exclusive domain of the &#8220;young.&#8221; For a very long time, while the SBC was being jerked in the direction of parochialism, there were many &#8220;old timers&#8221; (I never intended to be this old this soon) who understood that the genius and heart of the Southern Baptist Convention was being sacrificed on the altar of conformity and power politics. Among those &#8220;old timers&#8221; were many who were just as marginalized as many others in their call for a mission and evangelistic refocus. For nearly an entire generation the landscape was scattered with broken hearts and broken ministry careers of those who believed a call from<br />
God meant a life given to pursuing the will of God in both local and national settings because emergent (uh oh, a dirty word) leaders in the SBC had another agenda. Slash and burn was the modus operandi as networks were contrived in every State Convention to eliminate the perceived enemies. Good and Godly people were pushed aside with the question, &#8220;Do you fully agree with the Conservative Resurgence and those who lead it?&#8221;</p>
<p>My observation has been that the vast majority of older (at least they are aging at this point) pastors and leaders tried to &#8220;stay by the stuff&#8221; that provided hope and obedience to God&#8217;s direction&#8230;they worked hard at being &#8220;missional&#8221; where God had planted their lives and where they could make a difference in spite of what was happening on the broader SBC stage. Most of these men and women had little influence at the national level, so they simply lowered their heads, put their energies to the tasks where they could spend meaningful ministries, and prayed that somehow God would cause people to see what was happening to our beloved Convention.</p>
<p>What has changed? Let me remind everyone of those many occasions at SBC meetings when ordinary people would step to the mikes only to have them turned off or were called out of order. Letters or phone calls to agency leaders or trustees produced little effect related to concerns of average church members and leaders. Again, what has changed? The evolution (oh, my! I guess I&#8217;ll never get a professorship at Southern Seminary) of technology (specifically the internet, blogs, etc) has opened a path to actually dialogue about important issues and concerns, and for accountability of SBC leadership to be called for from the grassroots. </p>
<p>Now, anyone who wishes to participate in an open and sincere discussion about what seems to be important &#8220;out in the churches&#8221; or even in the larger organization has a venue that allows for their input. Yes, there are some who abuse the privilege, but it appears to me that their is a large amount of built in accountability by those who watch, read, care, and who have a sincere heart for God, His church, and the world in which He has placed us. A large part of the value of the blogging internet is not the createion of a &#8220;herd mentality,&#8221; but the value of allowing ordinary SBC Christians an opportunity to share &#8220;their two cents worth.&#8221; If their contribution is invalid or not helpful, it can be ignored or called to account. If their contribution is thoughtful and constructive, it can add to the dialogue&#8230;this was not possible before now in any meaningful way.</p>
<p>Art, stay with the stuff. Keep posting, prodding, and praying. Organizations and agencies can be changed though the larger they are and the more extensive they are, the longer it may take. There is a fresh breeze wafting across Southern Baptist life. You and I cannot make it happen, but we can participate in what the Spirit is up to.</p>
<p>Charles Clark</p>
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		<title>By: Art Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3973</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 22:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3973</guid>
		<description>David,

Don&#039;t be so dimissive.  It read like it was passive agressive - intended to sound like a joke, but be hurtful.

If you weren&#039;t intending to call people names, then you should be more careful and read the full context of the thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be so dimissive.  It read like it was passive agressive &#8211; intended to sound like a joke, but be hurtful.</p>
<p>If you weren&#8217;t intending to call people names, then you should be more careful and read the full context of the thread.</p>
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		<title>By: volfan007</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3972</link>
		<dc:creator>volfan007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 21:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3972</guid>
		<description>art,

lighten up, bro.  it was just a joke.

david</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>art,</p>
<p>lighten up, bro.  it was just a joke.</p>
<p>david</p>
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		<title>By: volfan007</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3968</link>
		<dc:creator>volfan007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3968</guid>
		<description>This comment has been removed by the blog administrator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment has been removed by the blog administrator.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Duren</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3958</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Duren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3958</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t herd cats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t herd cats.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3956</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3956</guid>
		<description>Tim,

I&#039;ll contact you privately to talk about Tulsa Metro.

Art</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll contact you privately to talk about Tulsa Metro.</p>
<p>Art</p>
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		<title>By: Art Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3955</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3955</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

I know you care very much about the SBC.  There&#039;s no doubt in my mind about that.  Sometimes, though, I grow weary of trying herd the SBC where I want it to go.  Silly me.  I realize now that it is impossible.  During the time it took me to realize this, I often envied your freedom to focus on the nitty gritty of the Christian walk.  That&#039;s all I was saying.

Heath,

Thanks for reading.  I think that you could have, at one time, easily perceived me to be following others as they led in these conversations.  That lasted for a month or two.

At this point, I can simply assure you that I speak for myself and only myself.  My last post about Dwight was written because I have seen what appeared to be a targeting of Dwight by James Smith.  It came from me.

I know that some think we follow others, speak for each other and that we are a team.  I know that was not your claim, but I am spinning off on a tangent now, so please indulge me.

For the most part, none of us know what the others are working on.  We really are individuals with similar, yet distinct, perspectives.  The lump and dump attitude of some - again, not you, Heath - is a convenient way to dismiss real minds speaking real thoughts.  It just doesn&#039;t hold water, I&#039;m afraid.

Again, thanks for reading.  If you wonder that I have become part of a group think mentality, keep reading this series.  I think you will be assured that I am not. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>I know you care very much about the SBC.  There&#8217;s no doubt in my mind about that.  Sometimes, though, I grow weary of trying herd the SBC where I want it to go.  Silly me.  I realize now that it is impossible.  During the time it took me to realize this, I often envied your freedom to focus on the nitty gritty of the Christian walk.  That&#8217;s all I was saying.</p>
<p>Heath,</p>
<p>Thanks for reading.  I think that you could have, at one time, easily perceived me to be following others as they led in these conversations.  That lasted for a month or two.</p>
<p>At this point, I can simply assure you that I speak for myself and only myself.  My last post about Dwight was written because I have seen what appeared to be a targeting of Dwight by James Smith.  It came from me.</p>
<p>I know that some think we follow others, speak for each other and that we are a team.  I know that was not your claim, but I am spinning off on a tangent now, so please indulge me.</p>
<p>For the most part, none of us know what the others are working on.  We really are individuals with similar, yet distinct, perspectives.  The lump and dump attitude of some &#8211; again, not you, Heath &#8211; is a convenient way to dismiss real minds speaking real thoughts.  It just doesn&#8217;t hold water, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for reading.  If you wonder that I have become part of a group think mentality, keep reading this series.  I think you will be assured that I am not. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3954</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 15:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3954</guid>
		<description>Art,

Great post! I am looking forward to the rest of the series. Now, a slightly personal note on the whole missional thing: I am in need, for a variety of reasons, of a new place to serve. I haven&#039;t felt at peace about just sending out resumes again, and God has laid church planting on my heart. Don&#039;t know what all that means just yet, but I am an Okie myself, and I want to plant closer to home and family if I am going to plant. That is, if God allows that- He may have other plans. All that to say this: is there a need for more planters in the Tulsa Metro Association? Are there any churches looking to plant, but need someone to work with? Any direction you can give me here would be greatly appreciated. You can email me at timlyds717@yahoo.com. Thanks!

In Christ,
Tim Cook</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art,</p>
<p>Great post! I am looking forward to the rest of the series. Now, a slightly personal note on the whole missional thing: I am in need, for a variety of reasons, of a new place to serve. I haven&#8217;t felt at peace about just sending out resumes again, and God has laid church planting on my heart. Don&#8217;t know what all that means just yet, but I am an Okie myself, and I want to plant closer to home and family if I am going to plant. That is, if God allows that- He may have other plans. All that to say this: is there a need for more planters in the Tulsa Metro Association? Are there any churches looking to plant, but need someone to work with? Any direction you can give me here would be greatly appreciated. You can email me at <a href="mailto:timlyds717@yahoo.com">timlyds717@yahoo.com</a>. Thanks!</p>
<p>In Christ,<br />
Tim Cook</p>
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		<title>By: Den</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3953</link>
		<dc:creator>Den</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 15:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/03/01/organic-revolution-future-southern-baptist-convention-politics-missional/#comment-3953</guid>
		<description>People who care enough to read the Baptist blogs also care enough to talk about the issuses that they read about.  They are SS tachers and mission leaders as well as pastors and staff.  They are grandparents and and young people called of God.  In the same way that you have no idea how many people read you, ya&#039;ll also have no idea of your far-reaching influence.  Don&#039;t waver. God is using you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who care enough to read the Baptist blogs also care enough to talk about the issuses that they read about.  They are SS tachers and mission leaders as well as pastors and staff.  They are grandparents and and young people called of God.  In the same way that you have no idea how many people read you, ya&#8217;ll also have no idea of your far-reaching influence.  Don&#8217;t waver. God is using you.</p>
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