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	<title>Comments on: The Myth of the Majority</title>
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	<description>Let these stones be a witness to what we have done here this day.</description>
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		<title>By: David Troublefield</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3085</link>
		<dc:creator>David Troublefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3085</guid>
		<description>I thought my post, with its non-pastel-ic emphatics, was a good one--and one of the last comments still on topic here . . . &quot;&gt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought my post, with its non-pastel-ic emphatics, was a good one&#8211;and one of the last comments still on topic here . . . &#8220;&gt;)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Hatcher</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3082</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Hatcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3082</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say a know of a great deal of myths at SWBTS. I do know of a number of funny stories. I remember the first time I met Hemphill. That was an interesting experience. I am not sure I should repeat it on a public forum.  It was in the RAC before he was going to play racquetball. Yes, that was a truly unique day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say a know of a great deal of myths at SWBTS. I do know of a number of funny stories. I remember the first time I met Hemphill. That was an interesting experience. I am not sure I should repeat it on a public forum.  It was in the RAC before he was going to play racquetball. Yes, that was a truly unique day.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3065</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 04:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3065</guid>
		<description>Great post.  It is always good to make it so that any kindergartener could understand it.  And, like Marty, I note the pastels.  I saw your excuse for them, but I still like noting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  It is always good to make it so that any kindergartener could understand it.  And, like Marty, I note the pastels.  I saw your excuse for them, but I still like noting it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3059</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3059</guid>
		<description>THAT one, I never heard. Instead, I heard the one about a student who fell asleep in class. His neighbor nudges him in the middle of the lecture, awakening him, and tells him, &quot;Dr. _____ just called on you to pray.&quot; So, right in the middle of class, a student stands up and starts to pray aloud. I&#039;ve heard numerous people tell me that they themselves were personally there to see this happen, although it is always a different professor and slightly different circumstances.

Such phenomena are common: Johnny Carson and Zsa Zsa Gabor&#039;s cat, Eric Clapton and Phil Keaggy. These urban legends just get started and won&#039;t stop. I think we&#039;ll need Brian and the X-Files to get them all worked out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THAT one, I never heard. Instead, I heard the one about a student who fell asleep in class. His neighbor nudges him in the middle of the lecture, awakening him, and tells him, &#8220;Dr. _____ just called on you to pray.&#8221; So, right in the middle of class, a student stands up and starts to pray aloud. I&#8217;ve heard numerous people tell me that they themselves were personally there to see this happen, although it is always a different professor and slightly different circumstances.</p>
<p>Such phenomena are common: Johnny Carson and Zsa Zsa Gabor&#8217;s cat, Eric Clapton and Phil Keaggy. These urban legends just get started and won&#8217;t stop. I think we&#8217;ll need Brian and the X-Files to get them all worked out.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3057</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3057</guid>
		<description>Bart,

Perhaps he had a palsy?  [kidding!]

Dr, &quot;Hatchet&quot; Harry Hunt (taught Hebrew) once told my Hebrew class of the student, unprepared for a test, who was asked to pray.  He prayed for an hour, effectively postponing the test.  While no one was willing to interrupt him, said Dr. Hunt, he was disciplined quite severely.  If I remember the story, Dr. Hunt said he was flunked from the class and was told if anything ever happened again - in any area of his life - he would be removed from school.

You might have heard that story, Bart, or might find someone who knows it.  Dr. Hunt claimed it was a first hand account, so, of course, I believed him.

Art</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart,</p>
<p>Perhaps he had a palsy?  [kidding!]</p>
<p>Dr, &#8220;Hatchet&#8221; Harry Hunt (taught Hebrew) once told my Hebrew class of the student, unprepared for a test, who was asked to pray.  He prayed for an hour, effectively postponing the test.  While no one was willing to interrupt him, said Dr. Hunt, he was disciplined quite severely.  If I remember the story, Dr. Hunt said he was flunked from the class and was told if anything ever happened again &#8211; in any area of his life &#8211; he would be removed from school.</p>
<p>You might have heard that story, Bart, or might find someone who knows it.  Dr. Hunt claimed it was a first hand account, so, of course, I believed him.</p>
<p>Art</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Hatcher</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3056</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Hatcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3056</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Certainly my plan is fraut with sticky places. Perhaps a proxy system could be put in place, or the convention would enter a phase of technology where the church could join in, vote, and fully participate through the internet, or conference calling. The regional video conferencing would be incredible. Maybe Willow Creek could tell them how since they manage to host an entire conference every year worldwide. My point is that unless the entire convention body is actually represented in some way it will be impossible to fully present a &quot;majority&quot; opinion for the whole body. For instance, if the convention was not in Farnk Page&#039;s territory this past year, would the results have been different? I would think not, but it is a fun question to throw around. Now, another thing the idea would do is that it would force every church to clean up their membership roles. Now, we wouldn&#039;t be 16 million plus strong anymore, but oh well. Maybe we could be honest with ourselves then.


Bart,

I too have spent many hours (okay minutes) staring at said painting of B.H. Carroll. I will admit that there is cause to believe that his fingers are merely resting in his coat pocket. It does not explain the odd shadow there. The truth is out there though. Where is Mulder and Scully when you need them? The myth goes on though. 


Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Certainly my plan is fraut with sticky places. Perhaps a proxy system could be put in place, or the convention would enter a phase of technology where the church could join in, vote, and fully participate through the internet, or conference calling. The regional video conferencing would be incredible. Maybe Willow Creek could tell them how since they manage to host an entire conference every year worldwide. My point is that unless the entire convention body is actually represented in some way it will be impossible to fully present a &#8220;majority&#8221; opinion for the whole body. For instance, if the convention was not in Farnk Page&#8217;s territory this past year, would the results have been different? I would think not, but it is a fun question to throw around. Now, another thing the idea would do is that it would force every church to clean up their membership roles. Now, we wouldn&#8217;t be 16 million plus strong anymore, but oh well. Maybe we could be honest with ourselves then.</p>
<p>Bart,</p>
<p>I too have spent many hours (okay minutes) staring at said painting of B.H. Carroll. I will admit that there is cause to believe that his fingers are merely resting in his coat pocket. It does not explain the odd shadow there. The truth is out there though. Where is Mulder and Scully when you need them? The myth goes on though. </p>
<p>Brian</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3055</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3055</guid>
		<description>And the theory you mentioned at the end...I typed poorly if I implied that. The conspiracy theory is that there WAS a cigar and it WAS covered up, not that it was staged to look like that happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the theory you mentioned at the end&#8230;I typed poorly if I implied that. The conspiracy theory is that there WAS a cigar and it WAS covered up, not that it was staged to look like that happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3054</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3054</guid>
		<description>Marty,

You are correct, sir.


Art,

The painting was one of my favorites. In fact, terrified to face oral exams, I once sat under B. H. for a couple of hours and tried (unsuccessfully) to gather my composure before going in. I, too, scrutinized it carefully. I, too, came to exactly the same conclusion as you&#8212;that there was a cigar originally that had been painted over.

But, I researched the matter and could find absolutely no substantiation for the allegation. I asked H. Leon McBeth and James Leo Garrett, and they assured me that the cigar myth was pure fiction. Much like the one about the guy who fell asleep in class and his buddy told him he had been asked to pray. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty,</p>
<p>You are correct, sir.</p>
<p>Art,</p>
<p>The painting was one of my favorites. In fact, terrified to face oral exams, I once sat under B. H. for a couple of hours and tried (unsuccessfully) to gather my composure before going in. I, too, scrutinized it carefully. I, too, came to exactly the same conclusion as you&mdash;that there was a cigar originally that had been painted over.</p>
<p>But, I researched the matter and could find absolutely no substantiation for the allegation. I asked H. Leon McBeth and James Leo Garrett, and they assured me that the cigar myth was pure fiction. Much like the one about the guy who fell asleep in class and his buddy told him he had been asked to pray. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Art Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3052</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3052</guid>
		<description>Bart,

I&#039;ve seen that picture on numerous occasions.  SOMETHING is there and painted over with a slightly greenish paint.  His fingers are clearly in position that suggests he is holding something.

Frankly, though I never thought it was that big a deal, as you mention that it is documented that he smoked cigars.

Are you kidding or is there really a theory that BH&#039;s painting has been staged to look like there was a cigar that was covered up?  If so, it&#039;s the first I&#039;ve heard of it.  Do tell...

Chris, (and Geoff)

The idea that the SBC could be held in simultaneous regional gatherings that are linked by video would solve many problems.  This idea made its way around the blogosphere last year.  It would save money for the individuals who have to travel less.  It would potentially raise the attendance overall as no one would be eliminated by cross country travel.  It would certainly take away regional preferences that, some say, we will face in Texas this year and got Frank Page elected on the first ballot last year.

To get this done, the SBC is going to have to call out for it.  It can be made to happen by the Executive Committee, if they are convinced that the SBC wants it.

Make no mistake.  Change is hard, whether in a local church or in the &quot;World&#039;s Largest Protestant Denomination.&quot;  It would take a change of mindset, but it will take a change in process as well.  New processes would have to be invented while the old processes were continued in the mean time.  It would have to work the very first time and with no hitches, or cries for the plan to be scrapped would drown it.  The communication of the idea would have to be done very well.  Obviously, it would be a massive undertaking.

The best way for such a plan to succeed would be to take it slow and in steps that could be more easily achieved.  If we started out with two sites, we could work hard to establish just the one connection and make sure there were no issues.  Once two sites were well established, more sites could more easily be added.

The down side is that many people will not want this for personal reasons.  A lot of pastors use the catch up with friends from college and seminary and are now spread out over the country.  Others use the convention as a vacation planning opportunity.  They use their conference time and money to get to the convention site and then spend the time at the end of the week, and even the week following, for a little vacation.  The church gets them there and so they save money and some vacation time.

Needless to say, these are the regular attenders, and are not likely to care to make the change.  If change comes, and it should, it would probably take a champion, or several champions, well respected and well placed within the current structure.

More than you wanted to know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen that picture on numerous occasions.  SOMETHING is there and painted over with a slightly greenish paint.  His fingers are clearly in position that suggests he is holding something.</p>
<p>Frankly, though I never thought it was that big a deal, as you mention that it is documented that he smoked cigars.</p>
<p>Are you kidding or is there really a theory that BH&#8217;s painting has been staged to look like there was a cigar that was covered up?  If so, it&#8217;s the first I&#8217;ve heard of it.  Do tell&#8230;</p>
<p>Chris, (and Geoff)</p>
<p>The idea that the SBC could be held in simultaneous regional gatherings that are linked by video would solve many problems.  This idea made its way around the blogosphere last year.  It would save money for the individuals who have to travel less.  It would potentially raise the attendance overall as no one would be eliminated by cross country travel.  It would certainly take away regional preferences that, some say, we will face in Texas this year and got Frank Page elected on the first ballot last year.</p>
<p>To get this done, the SBC is going to have to call out for it.  It can be made to happen by the Executive Committee, if they are convinced that the SBC wants it.</p>
<p>Make no mistake.  Change is hard, whether in a local church or in the &#8220;World&#8217;s Largest Protestant Denomination.&#8221;  It would take a change of mindset, but it will take a change in process as well.  New processes would have to be invented while the old processes were continued in the mean time.  It would have to work the very first time and with no hitches, or cries for the plan to be scrapped would drown it.  The communication of the idea would have to be done very well.  Obviously, it would be a massive undertaking.</p>
<p>The best way for such a plan to succeed would be to take it slow and in steps that could be more easily achieved.  If we started out with two sites, we could work hard to establish just the one connection and make sure there were no issues.  Once two sites were well established, more sites could more easily be added.</p>
<p>The down side is that many people will not want this for personal reasons.  A lot of pastors use the catch up with friends from college and seminary and are now spread out over the country.  Others use the convention as a vacation planning opportunity.  They use their conference time and money to get to the convention site and then spend the time at the end of the week, and even the week following, for a little vacation.  The church gets them there and so they save money and some vacation time.</p>
<p>Needless to say, these are the regular attenders, and are not likely to care to make the change.  If change comes, and it should, it would probably take a champion, or several champions, well respected and well placed within the current structure.</p>
<p>More than you wanted to know?</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Baggett</title>
		<link>http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3051</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twelvewitnesses.com/2007/01/11/the-myth-of-the-majority/#comment-3051</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts, Chris.  I&#039;ve often wondered the same thing.  I am one of those heretics who, in 20  years of Southern Baptist life, has never had the financial resources to travel to an SBC meeting.  BEsides, until last year, they didn&#039;t appear to be that interesting, anyway ... everything seemed to be a &quot;slam dunk&quot; before anyone showed up.  And, besides, I couldn&#039;t imagine hauling off enough freebies from the display hall to pay for the event. ;)

But if they can do live streaming broadcasts of the convention, why can&#039;t we have electronic registration and participation at the convention through the internet?  Why can&#039;t we have password-authorized voting via the internet by the elected registrants from each church?  This is the 21st century, after all.

And I&#039;m all for Brian&#039;s suggestion.  I think too many of our churches are padding their votes and exerting unwarranted influence behind a ruse of &quot;ghost man&quot; members.
Stay warm!
Geoff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts, Chris.  I&#8217;ve often wondered the same thing.  I am one of those heretics who, in 20  years of Southern Baptist life, has never had the financial resources to travel to an SBC meeting.  BEsides, until last year, they didn&#8217;t appear to be that interesting, anyway &#8230; everything seemed to be a &#8220;slam dunk&#8221; before anyone showed up.  And, besides, I couldn&#8217;t imagine hauling off enough freebies from the display hall to pay for the event. ;)</p>
<p>But if they can do live streaming broadcasts of the convention, why can&#8217;t we have electronic registration and participation at the convention through the internet?  Why can&#8217;t we have password-authorized voting via the internet by the elected registrants from each church?  This is the 21st century, after all.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m all for Brian&#8217;s suggestion.  I think too many of our churches are padding their votes and exerting unwarranted influence behind a ruse of &#8220;ghost man&#8221; members.<br />
Stay warm!<br />
Geoff</p>
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