Since I am a Missouri Baptist pastor, and occasional poster on the Missouri Baptist List, let me give you some perspective from another corner heretofore unheard here:

Lawsuit: Currently the MBC is in litigation with five agencies who in the dark of night removed language from their governing charters which held that the MBC is a “member” of each said agency, and thereto has the right, responsibility, obligation, and fiduciary duty to provide trustees to each entity through the convention, elected by the messengers. When these entities broke trust with the convention and its member churches starting in 2000-2001, there were myriad of discussions between the parties in an attempt to reconcile the issues. As is necessary in Baptist polity, this problem was brought to the floor of the MBC and voted on by the messengers as to how things were to proceed – as a result a committee was formed to oversee the process – whose findings, reports, and proposals have been reaffirmed by the convention each year afterwards.

After much time and an impasse, the entities were invited to participate in binding Christian arbitration using the services of a ministry called “Peacemakers.” The entities declined arbitration, preferring instead a “compromise” that pretty much gave them what they already had. The committee felt that what was necessary was a finding of fact and law before a civil court judge. No person or entity is being sued for any monetary damages in my understanding. What is being asked of the court to decide is the same that would have been sought before any arbitrator – does the MBC have the exclusive right to select trustees of the entities, and do the entities have the power to change their charters without convention approval?

This problem would analogous if a set of trustees of a church decided to take over and sell the church property without consent of the church body – what recourse would the people of the church then have but to have their case heard by someone? In this case the entities represent around 250 million dollars in Cooperative Program assets that came about by the faithful giving of the churches. Churches and individuals have been placed in the suit at the insistence of the judge, not the MBC, and these represent the plaintiff side – currently no individual is mentioned as defendant in any court action (save perhaps in mentioning entity heads and trustee chairman, but only in their official capacities). Currently the judge has not ruled on the merits of the question before him – rather the case has meandered over every frivolous objection that the entities and their attorneys can think up. And what has further ripened the issue as of late is the judge who has been hearing the suit lost his election last November, so I really do not know what is going to happen to it. At the last annual report, the Convention’s insurers have provided half of the current costs of litigation to date – the rest has been donated for the cause by some churches and individuals. So far the Cooperative Program has been spared – so far.

I have been in a quandary about all of this myself. The issue with me is not power and control, it is accountability and stewardship. I do not believe that those who wrestled ownership in the night have been good stewards, and they have certainly placed themselves outside of fellowship with 2,000 Missouri churches. They refused the leadership of the majority of messengers of the Convention, who in Baptist polity are the leading voice of rule and direction, and decided that their own council was more important than the council of the duly elected officers of the convention.

At the same time, are we not admonished by scripture if we are wronged just to be wronged? The committee claims that good stewardship of the entities and their net worth of 250 million dollars requires the convention to ask the question of the government concerning the law – to get a ruling on the main issue, good or ill, and if after all the appeals are vanquished, if we are wronged, then we are wronged. The opinion concerning suing “corporations versus an individual” opinion came from all people the late Larry Burkett. The committee has been zealous in seeking wide input from various quarters before proceeding in the case. They have solicited and received help from all sorts of people, and in some cases pro bono support.

This is the important part – if, under the laws of incorporation, an entity can break away from any mother organization, or undermine any mother organization, then all non-profit corporations (including churches) are susceptible to the same type of shenanigans that have occurred here in Missouri.

In most discussions about these issues outside of Missouri I am amazed about all the badmouthing of that the convention and its churches who in the main try to seek the council of the Lord and do the “right” thing (even though they may be wrong) while saying little or nothing about the decisions of the entities who got us here in the first place, and have refused at every quarter to seek forgiveness, repentance, and restoration.

Missouri Baptist List: this list of pastors can be at times interesting, and often rancorous. You can sense sweetness, and yet often times you feel a mean spiritedness. It is not for the faint of heart. I understand the frustration of many when they read the list – that is okay – sometimes I feel the same. There is not a man on there however, who when you get face to face, are the most loving lot there is. Opinionated – you betcha – name me a Baptist pastor who isn’t. Hard nose – yes. Most of the guys on there are old school and unapologetic about it. Loving – yes, hear some of the responses to the prayer requests. Willing at a drop of the hat to help out? Yes. One of my antagonist’s on the list was looking for a buyer for some Royals tickets he had – I emailed him and said, “I’ll go.” The man did not know me from Adam (except for the fact that we often disagreed) yet he mailed me the tickets without receiving payment before hand.

My philosophy? Iron sharpening Iron is a hurtful affair, and pretty messy. All those sparks flying around seems to bring one to frustration. But my granddad used to say “You can’t get any feed unless you are willing to shuck some corn.” We can’t attempt to change hearts and minds in terms of the direction of governance in our state and national conventions unless we are willing to listen, debate, and yes argue about those things which are truth – for the truth we are told “will set us free.”

Pray for our convention of churches in Missouri. Yes 75% of us are not doing what we need to be doing – it is to our shame. But we don’t need your condemnation – we need your prayers that God will rise up leadership and workers for the harvest. Also pray for our convention – we are going through some tough times right now. I pray that everything will turn out right – I suspect that everybody needs to get on their knees and seek mutual forgiveness from the Lord and each other – from the Executive Director on down.

Shalom,

Rob

As I suggested above that I might post on my own blog about the issues in Missouri, I’m now shamelessly announcing that said post is posted. How’s that for a tautology?

I have been informed that the “Grab a View, Give Your View” slogan WAS NEVER ON THE WEBSITE FOR The Journey.

It was, in fact, on the Bottleworks website. I hope that everyone understands that to hold Darren Patrick or his church responsible for what the Bottleworks puts on their website is not appropriate.

Some would say that if the church weren’t in such a place, something like that could never be said.

That’s true. Maybe we could all move to South Carolina and form a Christian state, where we mandate our views by law. Or move into secluded communities where the world can never get to us. We could be the Bapt-amish.

Sorry. I struggle with this stuff, sometimes. Completely withdrawing from lost culture is a great way to assure them of Hell. they are not going to notice our retreat and then come running after us. They will be content in their hollow lives, not knowing anything better is out there.

I have a better response to the critique that if The Journey weren’t in the Bottleworks, lost people couldn’t say things like, “Grab a Brew, Give Your View.” It’s not mine. I got it from someone else.

“Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of Me.”
-Jesus

Blessings,
John

First I am from Missouri, and the real issue in Missouri only involves The Journey in so much as it is being used by those who think that Clippard should be removed. These people have a list of complaints, of which have not been made public.

Clippard supported The Journey before the Executive Board in asking their approval of the loan, seemingly in confict with his previous public statments concerning alcohol. The issue of those on the executive board is: Did Clippard knowingly mislead the executive board concerning the subject of The Journey’s doctrine and practice concerning alcohol? In the loan process, which is different then recieving funds to support church plants, one is not asked to affirm an abstinence view.

I for one affirm that the Bible teaches against the abuse of alcohol but not its use.

TC

Thank you for your kind words regarding our new church.

Art,

You asked, “What will the MBC gain be separating from a church that is winning lost souls and contributing more to the MBC than most other churches in MO?” I agree that the Convention gains nothing from this kind of action and loses so much more. But having the opportunity to meet with younger and “young-thinking” pastors and convention workers from around the state, I have nothing but hope for the future, and see the current problems as storms we will be able to push through.

jasonk,

I truly appreciate the autonomy of the local church that comes with being Southern Baptist—it’s one of the primary reasons our church is affiliating with the SBC. I believe in it so much that I am willing to guard it from undue restriction. Whether or not the MBC “policy” is right is a fair question—I obviously disagree with it. I also don’t know that the Journey was aware of such a policy, but if Clippard was willing to state it this bluntly (see the third to last paragraph of the article at this address: http://www.mbcpathway.com/clippardcolumns/article11176.htm), I would assume that there was notice, thus giving those with the inclination to meddle the opportunity to do so.

I agree that people need to be more honest in who they are, and who they want to be. However, we all know that there is a lot of stuff in the backs of peoples’ minds when negotiating a deal like this. I’ve heard more than one pastor say, “better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.” That may be the philosophy of The Journey as they meet in a brewery for conversations on theology. Who knows?

What I love about the Journey is that they are forcing people to leave their comfort zones and admit that there is more than one way to lead a person to Jesus. Good for them.

I never said that the Convention should have authority over doctrine. Autonomy does reign. The authority lies in the group and its willingness to associate together for a common cause. Either it associates, or it doesn’t.

On the other hand, when you enter into an agreement, you do submit to certain prerequisites.

The question now is whether or not The Journey misrepresented itself to obtain a loan from folks who require abstention from borrowing churches. If not, then they are who they are and the deal is on the MBC. If they did, then there is some problem.

I will say that I have received an email from a local pastor who claims to be close to the situation and he claims that the Journey never gave much to the MBC at all until they needed to borrow money and that they have grown, in large degree, by collecting a generation of disenfranchised young adults who have given up on the church. He hastened to add that The Journey also reaches lost people, but they haven’t just grown that way.

There is something to be said about reaching that generation of people, raised in church and sick of Tradition over Scripture. If someone isn’t doing it, who will?

We all need to be a little more honest about who we are and gracious to others.