TC

I started following Baptist blogs with the initial contrversies of Rev. Burelson and Henderson Hills, because I live in Oklahoma, and these are “local matters” to me. It really started with just reading Burelson’s blogs, and then exploring others who commented in his. I am now starting my own blog, which some bloggers will be able to comment in as well. Hope that answers your question.

Greg,

I don’t see Benny Hinn or Rod Parsley as nuts, although I might not agree with everything they say. I believe there are more accurate and appropriate terms to use in describing these individuals than “nuts.”

I’m sorry about your experience in that Baptist church. It is sad to me that a group that takes James 5 seriously would be told to cease it.

My pastor, also, is an ex-Southern Baptist, for some of these same reasons.

Jonathan, the statement about TBN should have been qualified, and for that, I apologize. I’m happy every time the true gospel is communicated, regardless of who is doing the communicating, regardless of their motive. Not everyone on TBN is a nut. Most people in the SBC pews, however, associate TBN with Benny Hinn, Rod Parsley and others who they view as nuts and they will use this to charicature the whole PPL thing.

When I say it is safer to be a heretic than a “charismatic” or “pentecostal” in the average SBC church I do not consider that a good thing (I am a continualist but would not consider myself either a charistmatic or pentencostal as I do not believe the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is a second work of grace evidenced by speaking in tongues), and I speak from experience. The one time I got into trouble on staff of an SBC church is when we had prayer groups that took James 5 seriously and started laying hands on people and praying and seeing some remarkable results. Some of the folks in the church I served viewed this as “charismatic/pentecostal” and asked that it be stopped (even sent me an article from a very prominent local Baptist pastor who said God doesn’t work this way anymore). The same church later embraced a pastor who advocated the so called “free grace” heresy(You can reject Jesus as Lord while asking Him to be your Savior).

I am currently leaving a staff position at an SBC church and will likely begin attending a local Vineyard for all the reasons my friend Todd mentions.

Greg!
Hey brother. You still in Georgia? Jeni and I have good memories of our summer teamed up in Columbus, OH doing church planting 21 years ago.
You’re right about the strong feelings against charismatics and Pentecostals that continue in many Baptist churches. And understandably so, perhaps. But I’m hopeful that, the times they are a changin’. Not that all Baptists should “capitulate” but that we should engage their theology and practice without prejudice and adopt the biblical and best aspects of the movement while staying anchored to the Word. I think, on the whole, the Vineyard movement has done that and so have some Evangelical Free churches — not perfectly, of course, but with more openness than the majority of SBC churches and leaders, IMO.

Art,
Thanks again for the forum, and for the replies to my testimony and link. And for allowing some name-dropping! :-)

Jonathan K,
Hi brother. Just wondering: What motivates an unabashed charismatic to hang out on Baptist blogs? :-)

Thanks for your comments…

I agree that some pentecostal theology IS heretical (i.e. Oneness Pentecostal theology). However, I think we need to define what “Pentecostal theology” means, because that is a vague term, and can mean different things to different people, depending on your background and spiritual heritage within Christianity. Personally, when I hear the phrase “Pentecostal theology,” I am confused as to whether you are speaking of Oneness Pentecostals, or other groups, e.g. Assemblies of God, Foursquare, Church of God (Cleveland), etc.

I do not agree with everything I see or watch on TBN and Daystar, either. Personally, Daystar is much more mainstream and usually in the bounds of orthodoxy, whatever that means. However, I think TBN does put out good programs, and you cannot just take everything on TBN and put it in one basket… they even air Baptist ministers, too. :)

It is a sad statement that you could be heretical before Pentecostal in most SBC churches. Many, however, consider that Pentecostal theology to be heretical. In some places, I might agree. I have to say, though I don’t want to degenerate into nitpicking TBN, I have seen and heard a few things that I definitely consider beyond the bounds of orthodoxy.

I would, however, agree with your final statement wholeheartedly.

art

That is a sad statement for you to say it is safer to be a heretic than a “charismatic” or “pentecostal” in a Baptist church. That is a VERY SAD statement to me, esp. an outsider of Southern Baptists. (I am a charistmatic/pentecostal, yet non-denominational person myself).

And TBN or Daystar people are NOT NUTS. I got saved through Christian television, specifically TBN. If it wasn’t for TBN and Daystar, a lot of people would not hear the Gospel, and a lot of people would not find Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord.

Lastly, a note on whether PPL is the source of spiritual renewal. I disagree with that notion. Having a PPL is a result of being spiritually renewed, not the source of spiritual renewal. That’s what I think.

I certainly wouldn’t say that PPL is the thing through which Spiritual Renewal comes. I don’t pray in anything but english with a slight southern drawl.

Which leads me to Todd’s reference to Dr. Leafblad. Amen to all of that. Like so many, I was deeply affected by Dr. Leafblad’s vision of a deep, personal relationship with God, in which Worship is the main form of relating to Him. Of course, this is where I was first introduced to John Piper and his book Desiring God.

I was never under the impression that glossolalia had anything to do with it, necessarily. In fact, I don’t ever remember it mentioned.

Finally, I agree with Todd about the anecdotal story concerning emotionally insecure people tending toward tongues. It seems like reverse elitism, but I think that has marked this entire discussion. Dwight McKissic, one I know who we all can recognize, is personally kind, genuine, humble and gracious. Anything, frankly, but insecure.

Todd,

Very interesting study on your blog. I recommend it to all reading – it is thought provoking to say the least.

I will check out your brain-study link, as it may shed light on the phenomenon, which I am trying to see in psychological and now maybe neurological terms AS WELL AS theological terms. Fearfully and wonderfully made as we are, I prefer not to drive a wedge between those things, and see God working in and through who we are rather than invading us. We’ll see … have not had to do much study of this because I have never been in a church where this phenomenon arose. And I see your point on reverse elitism … after all, one way to describe sin is to see it as insecurity, a distancing from God, so that salvation becomes redemption from that condition. As my wife said when her mother died this summer, “I am not grieving because I know where she is.” Security! But insecurity sneaks up on us, blindsides us, and so in a sense we are all partially redeemed.

I know of Dr. Leafblad. My brother, Robert Smith, who teaches in the SWBTS music school, has mentioned him with genuine appreciation.