Dr. Floyd Reverses Course
Jun 22nd, 2006 | By art rogers | Category: Greensboro '06, SBCDr. Ronnie Floyd has reversed course in the issue of a minor league baseball stadium. Cox Cable network has been running spots of Dr. Floyd endorsing the stadium twice a day for a couple of weeks. Floyd has now pulled his support of the stadium, citing the stadium plans to sell beer during games.
Now, I don’t want to ascribe any motives, so let me here and now disclaim any knowledge of Dr. Floyd’s thoughts on the subject. It does, however, strike me as odd that anyone anywhere would assume that beer would not be sold at a ballpark. Once again, I state plainly that I don’t drink and do not enjoy being around those who drink too much – people often found at a ballpark.
My curiosity is further peaked by the recent resolution on Alcohol where Southern Baptists “resolved” the following:
Resolved, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Greensboro, North Carolina, June 13-24, 2006, express our total opposition to the manufacturing, advertising, distributing, and consuming of alcoholic beverages;
With the amendment to this resolution concerning leadership within the convention that also passing, it would seem Ronnie had no choice if he were desirous of representing Southern Baptists in accordance with our recent resolution on alcohol.
He certainly had no choice but to pull his endorsement if he ever hoped to serve in elected office seeing as how his CP giving record hurt him so badly last time. Directly disobeying an overwhelming resolution would certainly disqualify him.
You can read the Democrat Gazette news story:
Springdale : Pastor retracts stadium OK over beer sales
[HT: ARB]
[update]
Dr. Floyd clarifies his position concerning the ballpark and alcohol
[/update]
![[del.icio.us]](http://images.del.icio.us/static/img/delicious.small.gif){kind=small}
Ok, this is so sad that it is almost funny. Who in their right minds wouldn’t think that they would sell beer at a ballpark?
Can’t you hear the guys in the background: “Cooold Beer! Get yer ice cold beer, right here!”
The sad thing is that he is being forced to change his endorsement because of denominational politics. I’m sure that the initial reasons he was “for” the ballpark are still valid. But, denominational power is very real.
Tim
I remember when I was on staff at a mega-church we wanted to rent the local NHL arena for our Easter Sunday morning service. Of course, there were beer advertisements everywhere in the arena. One of the first questions from the senior pastor as we toured the facility was if we could cover up the beer signs. He was told the we could not. To his credit, we still went ahead and celebrated Easter Sunday with Budweiser signs bathing us in their warm glow. I was still confused as to how we were ever gonna cover all those signs.
I wonder in this case why it was okay to endorse it when all manner of other sins might be committed there, but beer was the deal breaker.
Dave
I do a lot of stupid things that I don’t think through until later. Isn’t it possible that the lightbulb finally clicked on at Springdale? That someone finally got off the “support our community” bandwagon and saw a flaw in their support?
Which might be more costly? Keeping support of the ballpark and suffering the possible wrath of SBC abstinencists or recanting the support and suffering Springdale ridicule? I think I’m leaning toward the latter.
Aren’t we in a season of SBC life where we need to cut each other an enormous amount of slack and give a heaping of grace?
Art,
This is the first time I have been to your blog. I was somewhat taken back by you choosing to comment on this subject. Give Dr. Floyd a break! It’s hard to see the relevance of pointing this out. Now I don’t want to ascribe any motives to why you posted this, but let me say that I think this appears that you are trying to kick Dr. Floyd when he is down. You played your part in not seeing him elected president. But Greensboro is over.
You said, “It does, however, strike me as odd that anyone anywhere would assume that beer would not be sold at a ballpark.” Yet the article that you referenced states: “At the time we stated our support we were unaware that alcohol would be sold at the park,” Floyd wrote this week in an e-mail to Virginia Pozza. “Our support will be withdrawn from any action that would place the sale of alcohol in a family-oriented environment.”
Later Alan Damron, associate pastor of strategic communications, stated: “This is not some vision he’s had as of lately. He’s always been against that. He definitely does not support the sale of beer.”
Springdale Alderman Mike Overton added: “Now it appears that Mr. Floyd hasn’t been told the whole truth…” I’m not sure if Overton is a Christian or not, but I find it interesting that he gives Dr. Floyd the benefit of the doubt. In reading your blog, it seems as if you don’t. As brothers in Christ, when Dr. Floyd claims he did not know that there would be beer sold, we should believe him. And let’s not jump to the conclusion that he has ulterior motives in the choice he made. I know you claim to not be judging his motives, but the fact that you put this on your blog contradicts that entirely. God bless!
The truth is, Adam, I am not trying to kick him when he is down. I never endorsed any of the three candidates, and was on the bubble until the day before the election as to the person I would give my vote. I was not, though, considering Floyd as an option – full disclosure.
I do think it is odd that Dr. Floyd thought that beer would not be sold at a ballpark. That’s just myopic. I do suspect that he is responding to the aforementioned resolution. I have a right to that opinion. Sorry if you disagree.
I don’t think its bad to respond to that resolution, either. Just say that is what you are doing. It just makes mroe sense.
I do have a hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt on this, though. Unless someone said that there would not be beer, why would anybody assume there wouldn’t be? If they did tell him that, why hasn’t he called them out for lying to him? Because it never happened.
The timing of it is just wierd.
As for “we should believe him,” you should feel free. I don’t and you are, of course welcome to dissent. We like dissent here.
As for the topic of choice, if this surprises you, you must be new.
Hey, if you don’t like this, whatever you do, don’t go to Arkansas Razor Baptist’s site You’ll have a stroke. Baptist Blogger will kill you dead. Villa Rica will entertain you until you figure out the analogy.
God Bless you, too.
Brother Art,
Sorry for the dissent, but I too find it strange that this is something that has the bloggers razing their keyboards place their questioning key strokes. What is the big deal? He found out they sold beer at the facility. I live in a dry county and they do not sell beer at the professional baseball stadium here.
Also, don’t you think you need to cut Adam some slack? If he is new do not feed him to the rabid pit bull named Baptist Blogger, nor to the charming cobra named Villa Rica.
Tim,
You may be right about the dry county thing. I just found out it was a dry county, so all that I posted before is put into new perspective for me.
It does seem more plausible that he really didn’t know.
Having said that, Adam may be new, but he didn’t pull any punches with me. He’s in the deep end of the pool and seems like he’s swimming fine to me.
You, however, I have a problem with. The way you describe BB and VR is at least as inappropriate as anything I’ve said about Floyd – ever.
The “pit bull” and “charming cobra” tags are offensive to me. I think you are wrong in your estimation of them, but that is beside the point. How would you react if I said “[somebody] is a filthy swine” or “a disobedient dog.”
That stuff is a character assault and not an evaluation of actions. Not cool.
Let’s not forget that we’ll now be watching to see who attends movies at theaters that serve alcohol. Forget going to eat at many restaurants because they serve alcohol…and renting stadiums with alcohol advertisements visible.
This new resolution is ludicrous!
Next it will be something else…
I guess Jesus was wrong for hanging out in areas where sinners congregated…
I guess my husband can’t go to the local buddhist temple anymore to share with people. (These are the people in our community that are most openly seeking something else. These are the people in our community that want to talk about spiritual things.) Good heavens, someone might think that he wants to be Buddhist!
Mark 7:5-8
So the Parisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradion of the elders instead of eating their food with ‘unclean’ hands?”.
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain, their teachings are but rules taught by men.’
You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the tradtions of men”
(This is in no way directed towards Ronnie Floyd; but instead toward this resolution and those who passed it!)
It seems that the SBC has decided that it’s important to ‘appear’ righteous and that man’s traditions outweigh God’s Word.
jenni
Art,
We actually don’t mind Coach Floyd’s position. Benton County is a dry county, for those of you not from the South, that means no alcohol sales. Benton County is the county where the stadium is being proposed. So I’m not surprised that Coach didn’t know brews would be sold.
Dear Brother Art,
You have given voice to the same things I have believed for months now, but the last couple things you’ve posted have just seemed like you’re out to get someone, anyone who is in range. You ragged on the pastors’ wives’ meetings, and now you have pounced on Coach Floyd for not thinking that beer would be sold in a dry county. Are you getting caught up in the fighting spirit?
Written with MUCH LOVE,
Jeff
Brother Art,
Sorry that you “have a problem” with me. You then call me into question for what you call “character assualt”. Let me first deal with that issue and then give you my opinion of your obvious displeasure with my assessment.
First I have not assualted anyone’s character. You yourself said; “Baptist Blogger will kill you dead”. Yes you say that it hyperbole, why is my statement about him being a Pit Bull not? He in a comment post on his blog; “My exact phrase of self-description is as follows: “I’m mean as a snake. Sly as a fox. And dirty as a dog.” About Villa Rica, you said; Villa Rica will entertain you until you figure out the analogy. I thought of a snake charmer charming a snake and that snake biting the snake charmer. Something your hyperbolic statement definetly refers to. You do not know that she is in actualilty spanking you until you can put together the hyperbolic statements and see. You cannot see these statements until you have fully engaged her in dialog.
This is what you are apparently saying, I do not feel I am reading anything in that.
Now you “have a problem” with what I have posted. Brother, your problem does not seem to be with my comment post as much as it seems to be with my post on my blog concerning the Weaker Brother argument when it comes to alcohol. Face it, you have a problem with that post because there is no defense to Christians shouting FREEDOM while pushing a DRUG onto society and saying they are being BIBLICAL.
Just my opinion!
This post has been removed by the author.
ALERT ALERT
I was wrong, Springdale is in Washington County. You can buy booze there.
Art, One person [Wade Burleson] says…”I teach my children and my church that abstinence is a wise choice for every christian and the best way to avoid drunkenness.”
“The idea that to drink a glass of wine, or any other alcoholic beverage is a sin against God is foreign to the teaching of the inerrant Word of God.”
“Drunkenness is a scourage on our society and we must sharply rebuke anyone, including the alcohol industry, who minimizes or encourages drunkenness and we treat sin seriously.”
The other one ,[Tim Rogers}…says
“Now you ‘have a problem’ with what I posted. Brother, your problem does not seem to be with my comment so much as it seems to be with my post concerning
the Weaker Brother argument when it comes to alcohol.”
“Face it, you have a problem with that post because there is no defense to christians shouting FREEDOM while pushing a DRUG onto society and saying they are being BIBLICAL.”
Now let’s see…who is pushing something here? Who is shouting something here?
Paul Burleson
Sorry, I do know how to spell “scourge”, I just don’t know how to correct it once posted. Oh well… :)
PB
ARB,
Thanks for the alert. That changes everything. Back. That changes everything back. Something like that.
Jeff,
I assure you that I am not attacking anyone. I am raising issues that I think are important. From the comment string on the ladies’ luncheon, many comments from ladies, I would say that many others think it is important as well.
My problem with the luncheon was that the organizer has had a personal penchant for lavishly decorating presidential mansions at two seminaries, and I think the theme of the luncheon reflected that a bit.
As to this post, Dr. Floyd is not the subject. The reversal of course is my concern.
I see it as the natural outworking of the Alcohol Resolution, to which you eloquently spoke during the convention. I would have posted about this if any SBC pastor (Wade Burleson included) had done the same thing.
I have no problem with Dr. Floyd supporting the stadium or not supporting the stadium. Either are defensable positions. The reversal, and the timing of it, strike me.
Tim,
Ok. Items one by one, then.
1. My description of those guys to Adam was in the vein of, “If you react this strong to my words, ARB’s are stronger, BB’s are stronger, yet, and VR’s don’t seem strong, but are very much so.” I did not impugn their character. I was not saying that BB would attack Adam, as you seem to have read it. Yes, you did misread my words.
Calling someone a “vicious pit bull” and a venomous snake is a reference to character. If not, then to what is it a reference? It can be nothing else.
If BB describes himself saying, “I’m mean as a snake. Sly as a fox. And dirty as a dog,” then he is free to do so. We are free to quote him on that. We are NOT free to add to it or reinterpret it. To my knowledge, VR has never made such a statement about himself, either.
Oh, and VR is a man, not a woman.
2. Why would you think that I would hide a motive for repremanding you? Have you ever known me to duck an issue? Have you ever known me to say one thing but mean another?
Occum’s Razor, cousin. Unless compelling evidence of something else is present, a thing is what it appears to be.
Do you have evidence that I have a problem with your stance on alcohol? I don’t.
I have said in this very post that I do not drink and do not like being around drunkards.
I do disagree with the resolution, because I think it extra-biblical. That is my opinion.
In fact, you are very welcome to express your opinion on this NON-ESSENTIAL issue here as well. I have no problems with it – though I differ slightly from you.
In case you have not known this from the beginning or learned it by now: I promise to tell you exactly what my problems are with anything you say and not obfuscate it in any way.
I did this earlier and I am doing it again.
art
Thanks, Paul. You can’t correct once posted in the comments section.
Brother Art,
I stand to be corrected. I posted my last comment with the wrong thought of those posting to my post about the Weaker Brother. You did not post and for the jump into your reasoning for your response, I truly am sorry. (I which I could make that bold, but I have not learned this fine art when it comes to comment posts)
I disagree with your comments about my assualting characters. Anyone that has entangled BB or VR on opposite opinions will attest to the feeling of absolute nothingness once they quite speaking and spanking you with words. BB is a master at spanking you with words–read his post. VR I must confess I am not intelligent enough to understand his/her? posts, however they have been known to bite.
If anyone feels I have assualted a character, please forgive me. That is not what I have done. I call it like I see it and I see BB and VR (when I can understand) using words and hyperbole that bites and stings those against whom they post.
Also, now Wades Dad has weighed in to defend his son. I respect that, but I always come back to the Biblical ground that alcohol is wrong for a Christian because of the weaker brother. WE CANNOT FORGET THEM! What is most important–we impress a heathen, or we keep a weaker brother from stumbling?
Totally off topic -
The suggestion made in a comment that Villa Rica is a woman really made my day. Still laughing!
Tim,
Thank you for your words. As to the character assault issue, I understand where you are coming from, but just disagree.
Even saying what you are saying now is not near as bad, in my mind, as calling them those names.
I assure you, by the way, VR is a man. He is a friend.
Dorcas – I know, the thought of him in a dress with a purse and certain ladies’ hat has me rolling!
art
Our brother Ben Cole has posted something on his site that I think you might find amusing. Go check it out at: http://baptistblogger.blogspot.com/
Tim D
Art
I have a question? Didn’t the Coliseum have a sign as you enter about having a wristband on to buy beer? Why didn’t we move our convention elsewhere.
Just a thought!
Good night
Kevin Lancaster