I am glad to hear that Ronnie Floyd is ready to move on now the SBC is over. I have said a few good things about him, but raised more questions concerning his CP giving. I had thought that he was handling himself fairly well in defeat, being that I perceived him to want the position very badly.
Then I read his conciliation blog. You can read it at:
SBC Is Over, Let’s Move Forward
In this post, Ronnie claims that when Jerry Sutton entered the race, eight days before the convention, he split the “strong conservative vote.”
I’m sorry, but this is myopic.
To claim that Jerry Sutton split the conservative vote, implies that everyone else is a moderate or worse – a liberal. In fact, it ties Ronnie now to the insinuation that Frank Page is less than a strong conservative.
It is a slap in the face of the entire Southern Baptist Convention, who voted more for Frank Page than for Floyd or Sutton COMBINED. Ronnie just implied that not only is Frank less than conservative, that we are as well.
Here’s how you know he’s wrong.
1. 30+% voted for a floor nominee two years ago, showing strong dissatisfaction with the “Kingmaker Appointment” process. This problem has been there for years. It is not new.
2. Ronnie is assuming that Jerry Sutton took all of his votes. He is not factoring in whether or not he took any of Frank Page’s votes. I know for a fact that he did. Ronnie would not have inherited 100% of Jerry’s votes had Jerry not been in the race.
3. The attendance, while up slightly, was not the 18,000 to 20,000 that some were predicting. 11,500 messengers was the highest total I heard. With just the slightest augmentation, the people who always show up were there this year.
These guys just don’t understand how out of touch with the Southern Baptist Convention they are. We are conservative, innerrantist men and women of God who are tired of our Cooperation together being used as a political tool to stroke the need of some to gratify their ego or satisfy their need for control.
And for Ronnie to say that he took the high road after saying that Sutton split his vote, implying that the rest of us (the majority of us) were less than conservative, and that he would never understand the logic in such a move, simply boggles the mind.
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Kevin Bussey
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 1:21 pm:
Art,
It is a slap in the face to Dr. Page! I expected better from Dr. Floyd. I really did. He owes Dr. Page an apology!
Jamie Wootten
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 3:06 pm:
Art,
I understand how you and some others interpret Floyd’s words to imply that Page and everyone who voted for him are mod – lib. I think we should give him a little more benefit of the doubt though. These are the words of a man who is likely frustrated, humiliated and even hurt. Sometimes we all say things we don’t honestly mean when we let our emotions get the best of us.
With that in mind…
I do believe no matter what he was implying or not implying that his tone was ungracious and smacked of being a sore loser. Kevin is right, a public apology and congrats to Dr. Page would a nice gesture.
Anonymous
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 3:39 pm:
Dr. Floyd’s post was a little surprising. However, he did contact Dr. Page and prayed with him on Thursday morning.Whether that was a simple gesture or sincere I do not know. I feel we should give Dr. Floyd the benefit of doubt.
Kevin
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 3:45 pm:
It was good to see you at the convention I also saw Wes but didn’t see many others.
For a first time SBC convention goers my wife and I felt that a lot was accomplished at this years convention and really enjoyed most of it (a lot of business and reports) but there were some things that happened that I found humorous.
1. Ergun Caner sat behind me as Wade made his motion what made me laugh was when he came up and found his friends he asked if this was his seat they said no they were saving that for “a trustee” and his reply was “I am going to go start blogging” Which made me turn and look the older man behind me noticed I was from OK and asked what part, I talked to him for a while and really enjoyed that. (I really wanted to shake Dr. Caners hand with the statement “Hi I am a blogger.”he left before I got the chance.)
2. On the plane ride home there were more preachers than you can shake a stick at. What was funny was that on row 21 was Paige Patterson in about row 17 was Ben Cole! I hope I am not the only one to find this funny? I did get a chance to talk to Dr. Patterson but did not get to talk to Ben. There were many others there and not one including Dr P said this was a bad conference most felt the vote was all about the CP giving.
3. We all laughed about Wiley’s nomination. It was the best humors one ever. They also said that Forrest gave the best nomination and I agree with Wade that is what won it on first ballet I heard many around me make their vote because of what he said.
Any way it was a very good convention in my opinion and there were some things that got done. I would have liked to see the SBC get the IMB issue fixed and Wade back to work. One bit at a time! Well call me when you get to T-Town and I will come down and we will do Lunch.
In Him
Kevin Lancaster
Kevin Bussey
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 4:00 pm:
Anonymous,
I’m glad they prayed together. Dr. Floyd should take his post off his site. I’ve done that on many occasions when I was confronted by wise people. He won’t allow comments so there is no way we can confront him. I have always respected him. But this just sounds like sour grapes. I hope not but it is what it is.
Phillips Lynn
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 4:03 pm:
Kevin,
I am certain that apology will come as quickly as the one to Wade from the IMB BoTs.
An apology would require an admission that a person was wrong and “kings and king makers” have an extremely difficult time admitting error in judgment.
Art,
You are correct in you statements “These guys just don’t understand how out of touch with the Southern Baptist Convention they are.”
I believe that was presented loudly in Greensboro.
Although it is a fact that Jerry Sutton was approached about allowing himself to be nominated for president because some of the “kings and king makers” could not in good faith vote for Ronnie Floyd, it is NOT true that Floyd would have gotten all of their votes had Sutton not be in the race. Floyd and Page would have split some of those votes with Page getting probably as many additional votes as Floyd. We would have seen more who just would not cast a vote for anyone for whatever reason.
The “L” word has been used by the “kings and king makers” for so long to explain their problems and position. It will take them awhile to comprehend this new situation and develop a new vocabulary for explanation. Until then I guess we will keep seeing the “L” and “M” words thrown around because they have rallied their troops and empower their position with these words for so long.
Anonymous
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 4:13 pm:
Don’t over react to the word “conservative”–it is just some holdover language. Dr. Floyd truly is a man of integrity and character–ask his flock of almost 20 years in NWA. You younger pastor’s will better appreciate his consistency and lived out character once you have done this for nearly 3 decades as he has done.
art rogers
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 5:41 pm:
Anonymous,
Sorry, but you come off as condescending. I hope that you are not. I am in my 20th year in ministry, myself.
I believe I have a pretty good perspective on these things. If you would like to understand my perspective more, go back and read the series I did entitled, “My Journey Through The Resurgence To Memphis.”
CW
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 6:39 pm:
I think Coach’s post illustrates the disconnect between denominational leaders and the rank and file Southern Baptist. I do feel we should take it easy on him. His post read like the words of a man in pain. I agree with Kevin and imagine he will remove it or change it. The sad thing is that we have a glimpse into his heart and can see that it is filled with a misconception.
Darren
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 7:14 pm:
Art,
It was good meeting you on Tuesday around lunch in the food court area of the mall. Duren’s just a good ol Georgia boy that my wife and I really enjoyed talking with and I appreciate your spirit and candor.
As things continue to simmer down from Greensboro, my hope continues toward the resolution of the new policies that go beyond the BF&M that will keep good men and women from going to the field and serve as a distraction for some who are currently there.
I sooo appreciated Mr. Burleson’s stand. He showed great grace and courage. I’m sure Wade would agree with this, but this wasn’t and isn’t about Wade for me, it’s about these policies that narrow the parameters of cooperation in Kingdom work.
I hope folks don’t forget this…
art rogers
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 7:17 pm:
Darren,
Amen and amen.
art
Anonymous
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 8:53 pm:
Reaction to defeat in the SBC presidential race? Ronnie Floyd’s was the same as when he was defeated in the presidential contest of the Arkansas Baptist Convention — he lost, by 2-1 margin, to the current governor of the State of Arkansas Mike Huckabee. Not much support for the CP through state channels after that.
TheMDude
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 9:20 pm:
Over here in Asia we would simply see Ronnie’s words as an attempt to save “face” – what he doesn’t realize is that he is not a “player” in the SBC anymore – and perhaps the vote is a mandate from small church pastors that the direction of the SBC will be led by the majority (small churches) and not the minority mega church pastors. Blogging is citizen journalism. The many to many. Just as Americans are dis-inchanted with legacy news media (papers and network channels) and are getting news themselves online, SB members realize that blogs are the answer. I know some of the bloggers think readership will decrease now, but I think it will increase.
GeneMBridges
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 9:28 pm:
I was particularly struck by the language he used before and after. When expressing his desire to accept nomination, he spoke of a Macedonia vision and we were told he was supernaturally drafted by God. Now that he’s lost, Brother Ronnie blames it on Jerry Sutton “splitting the strong conservative vote.” One can only gather from this that his answer to Job’s question, “Shall we accept good from God and not accept adversity?” (Job 2:10) is “Yes.” Let’s see him say that God, in His providence, as put Brother Frank into office. That is very evident, for history is nothing more than the record of God’s sovereign decrees enacted.
We KNOW that God, for purposes yet to be seen, has put Brother Frank into his office as president, precisely because it happened. He works all things after the counsel of His will. Let’s see Brother Ronnie glorify God instead of blaming man…and that, anonymous, is the true mark of consistent Christian character.
Alan Cross
on Jun 16th, 2006
@ 11:37 pm:
From reading his post, I think that it is possible that he sees himself as the true conservative. I think that it is possible for him to see things that way without thinking ill of Dr. Page or thinking that he is a moderate or liberal. Sometimes during a great disappointment, we can become rather introspective and only see things through our point of view. Our words may be negative towards others, but they may not be intended that way. I supported Dr. Page and was not a supporter of Dr. Floyd, but I’ve got to think that he is very disappointed and is possibly dealing with some confusion and feelings of rejection, both by God and his fellow Christians. I guess, even with his language not being all that I would like, I feel for the guy and cannot imagine how I would handle such a public rejection, especially after throwing myself in the ring at the beginning, believing that it was a done deal.
History has shifted and so much that was true about the SBC two months ago has been turned on it’s head. Ronnie Floyd got caught in the wake of an emerging grassroots groundswell and no one knows where it is headed. I’m willing to give him a pass right now as he tries to figure out how to react. In other words, I think it is possible that he considered himself the conservative candidate without necessarily implying that Page was the moderate candidate. But, I could be wrong.
Rzrbk
on Jun 17th, 2006
@ 12:27 am:
Art,
Thanks for sharing with us Ronnie’s take on the convention and correctly pointing out his mistaken implication that he and Sutton split the conservative vote and that those voting for Frank Page were not conservative and therefore liberal. For those of us from Arkansas, this is nothing new. He and the resurgence party in Arkansas have used this same labeling strategy for years. You may be correct in saying they just don’t get it or it could be that they get it but still use those labels because they know most others don’t get it and will believe them.
Now I wonder if many of the young bloggers get it. Are they guilty of using the same kind of language? I am not directing this at you Art.
When Wiley Drake says that there are still lots of liberal wolves in sheep clothing around and describes them as Southern Baptist terrorists, do he and those who rejoice in his election get it?
In Wade Burleson’s Conservative vs. Compassionate Conservatives blog he said the liberals met their Waterloo in Dallas in 1985. Charles Stanley defeated Winfred Moore in that race. There were 45,000 in attendance and Moore got close to 20,000 votes. Winfred Moore was a solid theological conservative as were 99 percent of those who voted for him. Does Wade get it?
In 1988 in San Antonio, Jerry Vines defeated Richard Jackson by 50.53 percent to 48.32 percent. Jackson was a solid theological conservative as were the over 15,000 Southern Baptists who voted for him. Remember only 5,000 voted for Frank Page. Jackson was pastor of a church that gave over $1 million dollars a year to the cooperative program and led the SBC in baptisms with over 1,000 a year for several years. That didn’t stop the resurgence folks from starting rumors and innuendoes about him and his wife. Too bad there were no bloggers to spread the truth in those days. Jackson was committed to appointing theological conservatives while Vines was committed to making political appointments that resulted in people such as Olin Collins and Bill Hancock serving as trustees. I believe if Jackson or Moore had won, our convention would be more theologically conservative today and we would not have the continual battles for control that we have experienced over the last 25 years.
When the young bloggers make statements like the liberals are no longer here we are all conservative now that is a slap in the face to those theological conservatives who supported our convention but were attacked and made to feel unwelcome by people like Wiley Drake, W. A. Criswell, Paul Pressler and others who have used dishonest labels to attack those they disagree with. They say it is about the Bible but they spend our time at the convention arguing over things like the WMU and private vs. public schools. Maybe it is time to reread the Memphis statement and see if we all still have some repenting to do.
Ron West
Jeff Richard Young
on Jun 17th, 2006
@ 2:03 pm:
Dear Brother Art,
Is Dr. Floyd, along with everyone else, missing the fact that even Sutton’s and Floyd’s votes together do not equal Page’s? Even if the “strong conservative” votes had all been for Floyd, he still would have lost.
Dear Alan,
You are very nice. I learned alot about personal kindness in the brief time I spent with you this week. But you are being too easy on Dr. Floyd here. He gets no pass from me on this one. He consciously, consistently lead his church to reduce CP % giving steadily for 20 years until it is .27 of one percent. As a result, he now can’t get elected for SBC president despite the support of the establishment. Then he wants to say those who voted for Page are not strong conservatives and that Sutton cost him the election. I know 10-year-old soccer players who are better losers that this pastor. Sorry, no pass on this one.
Love in Christ,
Jeff
Anonymous
on Jun 19th, 2006
@ 6:41 am:
Art,
For the record, you are right on target. I have a member whose grown children attend FBC Springdale (Ronnie Floyd’s church) and when she asked me this Sunday what I thought about the SBC, I told her I was excited about the future now that Frank Page was elected president. She expressed fear, saying, “I heard he was a bit liberal.” I told her that whoever passed that along to her was completely mislead, or sore that Ronnie Floyd had lost.