In reference to Dr. Patterson’s claim that SWBTS was in a 20 year decline that was ending with his arrival, these numbers from the SBC annual:
1982-1983 3,543 Resurgence begins + 3 years
1983-1984 4,029
1984-1985 3,981 Art Graduates HS
1985-1986 3,929
1986-1987 3,797
1987-1988 3,665 Art’s parents beg him to graduate college
1988-1989 3,465
1989-1990 3,389 Art gets BA, enrolls at SWBTS, parents sigh – Art is paying for Seminary
1990-1991 3,134
1991-1992 3,141
1992-1993 3,129 Art gets married over Christmas break. ;)
Paige Patterson assumes Presidency of Southeastern Seminary – begins changing the image of SEBTS among many Southern Baptists from “liberal” to “conservative.” Attendance there begins to rise.
1993-1994 3,034 In the fall of the year, Bonnie tells Art they are having a Seminary baby. Art gets serious about graduating and starts taking many classes and summer school.
Al Mohler assumes Presidency of Southern Seminary – begins changing the image of SBTS among many Southern Baptists from “liberal” to “conservative.” Attendance there begins to rise.
In the Spring, Dr. Dilday is fired hours after Trustees assure him, students and other interested Southern Baptists that his job is secure. SWBTS is put on academic probation.
Art’s son, Jimmy is born during the summer.
1994-1995 2,805 Dr. Hemphill wins the trust of the faculty, staff, students and the accrediting agency, SWBTS is removed from probation is astonishing time.
Art graduates and moves to Kentucky.
1995-1996 3,024
1996-1997 3,052
1997-1998 3,099
1998-1999 2,784
1999-2000 2,441
2000-2001 2,371
2001-2002 2,381
2002-2003 2,209 Dr. Hemphill pressed out, Dr. Patterson installed within 4 months
2003-2004 2,202
2004-2005 1,991
According to the FTE numbers, Dr. Patterson is more or less accurate in saying that SWBTS was in a gentle decline for about 20 years.
However, Dr. Patterson is refering to the FTE numbers and does not include the Bachelor’s degree program added in the late 90′s bringing in hundreds of students that are not reflected in these numbers. He does not include the D.Min. students that are not reflected in these numbers. He certainly did not include the PhD students that are not reflected in these numbers – when during this time the pre-requisite for admission to the PhD program dropped from a 3.7 GPA to a 3.5 GPA. This raised the number of candidates and admissions to that program.
Why does this matter? Because he certainly DOES include any and all such numbers in his reports to the Trustees now.
Apples — Oranges
Fruit, but not the same, and disengenuous to imply that they are.
One more thing for today: The reference to the housing being 95% full is misleading in many ways. For instance, there are still NOBTS students living there who were forced out by Katrina. SWBTS graciously offered them a place to live and continue their studies, but not all have been able to relocate back in New Orleans. At this point, many are in the housing, but not registered as students at SWBTS.
Right?
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Kevin Bussey
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 4:30 pm:
1982-1983 3,543 Resurgence begins + 3 years
1983-1984 4,029
1984-1985 3,981 Kevin Graduates from a now former SBC University Samford in Bham
1985-1986 3,929 – Kevin works for Long’s Electronics
1986-1987 3,797- Kevin decides he will be the next Bear Bryant and begins a Masters in Education so he can coach Football.
1987-1988 3,665 Kevin graduates from UAB with a MA and begins his coaching career-
1988-1989 3,465 Kevin marries Cassandra and goes 11-3 and is nicknamed “Cub” Bussey
1989-1990 3,389 Kevin is now selling insulated wire and making lots of $$$$$!
1990-1991 3,134- God gets a hold of Kevin and he surrenders to vocational ministry.
1991-1992 3,141 – at the urging of his pastor, Kevin enrolls @ SWBTS because he is told it is the most conservative seminary in the SBC.
1992-1993 3,129 Kevin enrolls @ SWBTS and gets MONO!
1993-1994 3,034
In the Spring, Dr. Dilday is fired hours after Trustees assure him, students and other interested Southern Baptists that his job is secure. SWBTS is put on academic probation.
Kevin’s son, Jacob is born the month after Dilday’s firing.
1994-1995 2,805 Dr. Hemphill wins the trust of the faculty, staff, students and the accrediting agency, SWBTS is removed from probation is astonishing time.
Kevin graduates and moves to Jacksonville, NC.
1995-1996 3,024
1996-1997 3,052
1997-1998 3,099 Kevin moves to Atlanta to be an Assoc. of Evangelism- his daughter Hope is born
1998-1999 2,784
1999-2000 2,441 – Kevin answers call from Dr. Reccord to plant a church
2000-2001 2,371
2001-2002 2,381 Plants Bridge church the week after 9/11
2002-2003 2,209 Dr. Hemphill pressed out, Dr. Patterson installed within 4 months
2003-2004 2,202 Kevin moves to Mobile, AL for 2 1/2 year of hell! He sees a church split and is the last of 7 full time pastors remaining. His pay is cut by $9K
2004-2005 1,991
2006- Kevin moves to Charlotte, NC to transition a church and gets his tail involved in his denomination for the first time ever!
Jason Sampler
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 4:35 pm:
Art,
Great post. Let me make one comment/correction from a personal perspective. I was one of the NOBTS students that took up residence in SWBTS housing. I was very grateful for their generosity to rent an apartment to me. There are, at a rough estimate, 50 family units (either single students, or married students and their kids counting as one ‘unit’) at SWBTS. Of all of the students that evacutated there, I am the only one I know of who did not enroll in SWBTS. All of the international students were all but forced to switch, due to visa requirements. Most of the others, I believe, switched to SWBTS at least for the time being. Many of them, I pray, will return to New Orleans this summer to resume their coursework here. But, by and large, the NOBTS students that moved to Ft. Worth did enroll as full time students at SW.
This does not affect your overall thesis that Patterson is mixing FTE and overall numbers. I hope this is not the case. If it is, I hope the trustees know the difference. My greater fear is the average Baptist doesn’t know the difference between FTE and total enrollment. However, I did want to inform you from a personal perspective that the NOBTS students did enroll at SW, at least for this year.
Blessings,
Jason
art rogers
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 4:43 pm:
Jason,
Two things:
1. The family units are just a small number of the housing units owned by the Seminary. If the number of those units has been reduced, then the 95% quoted is a vast distortion.
2. If Katrina actually forced the enrollment of a large number of former NOBTS students, then the attrition rate at SWBTS is FAR WORSE THAN PREVIOUSLY.
art rogers
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 4:44 pm:
That is…
FAR WORSE THAN PREVIOUSLY REPORTED.
Sorry, my wife called.
disillusioned
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 5:08 pm:
art,
I posted some thoughts on your “Flagship” post before I realized you’d also written this one.
Alan Cross
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 5:12 pm:
Kevin, Art, really funny with the timeline. Let’s try this from a “younger” guys perspective:
1979 – Conservative Resurgence begins – Alan is 5 years old and moves from New Orleans to South Mississippi with his family!
1982-1983 3,543 Resurgence begins + 3 years – Alan wins best overall in art contest for 1st-3rd graders and gets a hamster and a little dog.
1983-1984 4,029
1984-1985 3,981 – Alan won class president for the 5th grade! For those who thought he was a political novice, this experience proves otherwise. Greensboro, look out! He’ll be ready to advise Johnny Hunt at length on his presidential nomination (stand up straight and DO NOT pick your nose!)
1985-1986 3,929
1986-1987 3,797
1987-1988 3,665 – Alan makes 8th grade basketball team and rides the pine all year.
1988-1989 3,465 – Alan makes 9th grade basketball team and rides the pine all year.
1989-1990 3,389 – Alan is cut from the j.v. team effectively dashing his dreams of basketball stardom.
1990-1991 3,134
1991-1992 3,141 – Alan graduates high school and heads to Miss. St.!
1992-1993 3,129
1993-1994 3,034 – God gets ahold of Alan and radically changes his life, calls him to ministry, and sends him to California as a BSU summer missionary, where he met his future wife who was also a summer missionary from Univ. of Alabama!
1994-1995 2,805
1995-1996 3,024 – Alan marries the Alabama girl!
1996-1997 3,052 – and graduates from Miss. St!
1997-1998 3,099 – - Alan goes all the way out to SF to get an M.Div. from Golden Gate where he learns about Jesus and missions. Also, he first learns that there was something called a “conservative resurgence” in the SBC.
1998-1999 2,784 – daughter born!
1999-2000 2,441 – graduated GGBTS and came all the way back to Montgomery to be an associate pastor of worship and ministries.
2000-2001 2,371
2001-2002 2,381 – Son born!
2002-2003 2,209
2003-2004 2,202 – Another son born!
2004-2005 1,991 – Mission trip to India – travelled to Europe within 6 weeks!
2006- Mission trip to Middle East (Jordan/Israel), Became lead pastor of same church after previous pastor left, had another son, Katrina hit home area and became REALLY involved in relief work, and, for the first time ever, paid any attention to denominational issues apart from the grunt work of the ministry!
This was kind of fun to do, but it also proves a point. Many of us were in grade school when the battles of the SBC were being fought. We have been focused on getting started in life, ministry, etc. Denominational politics have been of no interest to any of us, because, what could we do about it from 9th grade biology class? The events of the past couple of months have motivated us because they have dealt with missions, which is probably the main thing that we care about in SBC life. So, for those wondering where we were when Dilday was fired, I think I was just starting to read my Bible for the first time in college!
Now, if Joe Kennedy does this timeline, the point will be even more clear!
Kevin Bussey
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 5:14 pm:
Alan,
That is great!
Phillips Lynn
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 5:33 pm:
Pastor Art,
Your hard work and time invested in gather the facts for us is much appreciated.
art rogers
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 6:59 pm:
Kevin & Alan,
Well done. That makes me want to add a bunch of other stuff, but I will refrain.
Phillips Lynn,
You are welcome, but it was not that hard. I say, “you’re welcome,” for my peers with whom we are collectively watching many things in the SBC.
Jason Sampler
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 9:01 pm:
Art,
Comments on your two comments:
First, I was not careful with my use of the term ‘family unit’. It was a poor choice of words but I didn’t know how else to express what I was thinking. I was not referring to housing, but to people. What I was trying to say is that there are 50 individual families (here i am defining a family either as a single person, a husband/wife, or husband/wife/kids; regardless if a person is married or not, or if there are kids, i am counting each as one ‘unit’) that settled in Ft. Worth. My point is that about 50 ‘units’ (read: people) from NOBTS became SWBTS students. Therefore, 50 dorms/apartments/houses are now being inhabited by former NOBTS students who, at least for this year, are SWBTS students.
Second, I think it’s a fair approximation to say that 50 students enrolled at SWBTS. It’s not a large number in comparison to either the size of NOBTS or SWBTS. I don’t think the ‘influx’ of NOBTS students affected SWBTS’s FTE numbers very much.
I hope my clarification helps. Sorry for the confusion. As I mentioned to you in an earlier conversation, blogs are not the most ideal for conversation. Meaning is oftentimes confused between writer and reader when there is no personal dialogue.
Blessings,
Jason
martyduren
on Apr 5th, 2006
@ 9:10 pm:
Art-
Good stuff here. Looks like you’ve started a geneology blog…
joe kennedy
on Apr 6th, 2006
@ 11:16 pm:
July 1981- Joe is born in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
81-82: I was 1. Gimme a break.
82-83: Mom makes a blue Smurf cake for my second birthday that makes me throw up. SWBTS Enrollment is at 3,543.
1983-1984 (4,029): I turned 3.
1984-1985 (3,981): My oldest brother joins the Navy Reserve. I discover Captain Kangaroo.
1985-1986 (3,929): I get a dachsaund puppy. I want to name her Melissa after a girl in my class. (It’s sweet when you’re 4), but we name her Pokey. I step in a random hole in the yard and get stung by a swarm of hornets. Both the dog and I survive.
1986-1987 (3,797): We move to Long Beach, Mississippi on July 7th. I have chicken pox all through the move.
1987-1988 (3,665): First grade. I go to a Disciples of Christ church in Gulfport.
1988-1989 (3,465): My friend Ryan and I try to sell mud crawdad castles on my driveway to help raise money for his brother’s surgery. His brother Tony got real sick and Ryan had to be held back from the second grade.
1989-1990 (3,389): Third grade. I’m Ben Franklin for a social studies class project. Spectacles and all. For a while I go to a Methodist church.
1990-1991 (3,134): Fourth grade. The Gulf War breaks out. I have two friends whose dads are in the Air Force. They’re called up. They go. We walk around school saying, in an Elmer Fudd voice, “Shhhhh. Be vewy vewy qwieeet. I’m hunting Iwakis.” Kids.
1991-1992 (3,141): Fifth grade. They put me in the smart kids’ class. My friend Jason tells me “don’t be like them, don’t change.” I tried not to.
1992-1993 (3,129): It snows on the MS Gulf Coast, Joe goes through Methodist confirmation, baptized by immersion by request from my dad. Shortly afterward, Rev. Barham leaves the church. We stop going to church. Dad has a heart attack on my 12th birthday. I was spending the night at my friend Matt’s house when it happened.
1993-1994 (3,034): Seventh grade. That summer dad gets transferred to Mobile, Alabama. We move on my 13th birthday.
1994-1995 (2,805): I begin attending an Episcopal school.
1995-1996 (3,024): Freshman year in high school. Enough said.
1996-1997 (3,052): Just before the school year begins, we have vacation in Nashville. Dad has his second heart attack. I learn that Nashville is the best place in the entire world to be for heart surgery. Early 1997 I get to visit NYC and sing in Carnegie Hall.
1997-1998 (3,099): Junior year in high school. I visit Cottage Hill Baptist Church for the very first time. I stop going after three Wednesday nights.
1998-1999 (2,784): Senior year. I get to sing in DC with the school. Senioritis kicks in around February. I decide to attend Auburn University. Graduation. In July I “get saved” not remembering any events that took place in 1993.
1999-2000 (2,441): My first freshman year at Auburn. Living with some messed up folks. Been a Christian for 2 months before I leave. Maybe. Get lost in the mix.
2000-2001 (2,371): Second freshman year at Auburn. Academic probation begins January 01. I become a barista at Books-a-Million in Mobile, Alabama. Enroll at the University of Mobile over the summer. Quit coffee job to finish school.
2001-2002 (2,381): First full year at UM. Switch from Journalism to Advertising. Minor in business. Tapped for Chapel Staff by Moses Caesar, who leaves at the end of the year for Germantown, TN.
2002-2003 (2,209): Minor is now business. Changed to religion after one semester. Feeling called to ministry. Not sure what to do about it. Look at advertising programs in graduate schools. Travel to UT-Austin and Texas A&M. Nix both. Join First Baptist Tillman’s Corner as an intern. My first ministry job.
2003-2004 (2,202): Took a bunch of religion classes. Loved it. Decide to attend seminary after long thought. Still a volunteer at FBTC. Visit SWBTS and NOBTS. Turned off by SWBTS admissions guy. NOBTS preview weekend is phenomenal. I graduate from UM.
2004-2005 (1,991): First year at NOBTS. Join Edgewater Baptist Church. Make contacts. Get a mentor for the first time ever. Things are looking great.
2005-2006: A hurricane destroys everything I know in New Orleans and Long Beach. The Katrina Diaspora, as I begin to call it, claims many friends. Roommate and best friend trasnfers to SWBTS. I consider following…. but choose to remain.
Hurricane season looms. OK, I played.
art rogers
on Apr 7th, 2006
@ 9:43 am:
Joe!!!!
I, too, was born in Hattiesburg! My family is from Pascagoula, MS, and my folks were in college when I was born.
I was born … just… just a FEW years before you.
D.R.
on Apr 7th, 2006
@ 2:08 pm:
Art,
In your research have you found any statistics in regards to the other seminaries, such as whether they declined or grew during this 20 years? I had a long discussion on this some time back with Bruce Prescott and another guy who claimed that SWBTS’s drop was due to the conservative resurgence, but I attributed it to a general rise in the other seminaries, as well as the interest of other Southern Baptists in seminaries other than the Big 6. I was wondering if your numbers substantiated my claim.
joe kennedy
on Apr 7th, 2006
@ 5:46 pm:
So I was wondering something. The Resurgence began in 1982? And how long did it last? I mean, I guess I always thought it was a 10 year thing that started in like, the mid-70s and lasted until the mid-80s or something. The first memory I have of “evangelical” Christian stuff is that whole late 80s-early 90s “radical Christian,” “names of God t-shirt,” “the beads on this bracelet mean something important,” “slap-bracelet” stuff. You know, the stuff Stephen Baldwin still shows up to talk-shows wearing. It was some kind of Christian branding. So was that a part of the Resurgence, or a result of it?
art rogers
on Apr 7th, 2006
@ 11:18 pm:
Joe,
The resurgence started in’79 – Houston. The primary architects were Judge Paul Pressler and Dr. Paige Patterson, along with Homer Lindsey, Jerry Vines, Adrian Rogers and a slew of others.
The plan was to elect conservative presidents who would then choose conservative nominators who would follow the convention process of placing conservatives on every open slot. Over a ten year time period, this would replace every postion within the convention with hand picked conservatives.
At first it was fairly close. there were great bussing campaigns to get both sides, but the moderates always were just short. When it became evident they had lost, the moderates quit trying. moany decided to take their support and go somewhere they felt that was representative of their group and formed the CBF. Some straddled the fence and supported both. Some just became independant. Some stayed, but give little or direct very specifically their offerings.
The kitsch that you talk about was just part of the “evangelical” culture and not tied to the resurgence. My favorite thing to make fun of is the “Testamints” breathmints they sell in Lifeway.
art rogers
on Apr 9th, 2006
@ 4:35 pm:
DR,
That is an excellent question. I would also like to know about other conservative and even moderate seminaries that are not part of the “Big 6.”
I will do some looking a little later, but right now I am gearing up for the “Convention Primer.”
Art
D.R.
on Apr 11th, 2006
@ 3:28 pm:
Thanks man. I didn’t think about the moderate seminaries, but I would imagine that there is some decline there, especially if they are tied to mainstream denominations. These new moderate Baptist seminaries are growing, but incredibly slowly and seem to have little impact on the whole, with Truett being the major school.